Hi,

There was requirement that the NCUC charter be updated after the NCSG
charter was approved, to bring it into compliance with the NCSG charter.
 This never happened, so the NCUC charter is out of date and does not
acknowledge the existence of the NCSG at all I beleive as it is a
pre-reorganization charter.

The NCSG requires that one be a member of the NCSG first and that
overrides the NCUC charter which is outdated.

As a bit of history, I did do a minimal revision of the NCUC charter at
the time, about 3 years ago now, to bring it into accordance with the
NCSG.  But then the NCUC was undergoing some other organizational
changes and there was a NCUC decision to put the effort on the back
burner.  And there it sits. though I do understand people have worked on
it a few times since without every reaching closure.

Whatever the case with the NCUC charter, the NCUC did bring its
practices of admitting people to the NCUC after they were admitted to
the NCSg.

Seeing to it that charters are updated and reviewed every few years is
the responsibility of the NCSG-EC. Updating the NCUC charter is up to
its chair and executive committee.

cheers,

avri


On 23-Sep-14 12:13, Carlos A. Afonso wrote:
> One key point, I think: do the NCUC rules/by-laws/whatever determine
> that no one can be a NCUC member without joinint NCSG first?
> 
> --c.a.
> 
> On 09/23/2014 01:05 PM, David Cake wrote:
>>
>> I just never fully understood why NCUC and NPOC do not handle their own application process.
>>
>> NCUC and NPOC handle their applications process, NCSG only approve NCSG members who may or not want to join constituencies, it is up to NCUC and NPOC to approve them as their members.
>>
>>
>> Why do people need to be NCSG first?
>>
>> It would seem more useful that the NCSG where just an umbrella for NPOC and NCUC to help coordinate the NCUC and NPOC leaders.
>>
>> yes we need NCSG, in fact constituencies cannot exist without it, they can be created and disbanded while the SG remains. it is not just in umbrella, a concept which may lead to the misunderstanding. it has the committees populated with representation from  constituencies and also elected officers like the NCSG chair and also the election of  GNSO councillors to represent the whole stakeholder group.
>>
>> I think you observed  several times how many policies are discussed and statement done at the SG level.
>>
>> the stakeholder group model also exist in other parts of GNSO such the contracted party (registries and registrars )where there is no constituency per se.
>>
>> The present way of having NCSG members that are also NCUC and NPOC creates a double representation that can be confusing, misleading and dysfunctional. Am I clear with this idea?
>>
>>
>> there is confusion here, a NCSG member can be just a NCSG member without joining constituencies or joining both or just 1 ot them  . joining a constituency may be important for a member to work on some topic if s/he wants but it is not mandatory.
>> there is no double representation but more diversity of representation and affiliation. I don't think you disagree with this.
>>
>> I think the NCSG should not act like a stakeholder itself but as a coalition of the stakeholder that make part of it, therefore, the NCSG would just be the place where NCUC and NPOC community leaders meet to take things up. If not, it seems that the decision made in the NCUC or in NPOC through the consensus are not valued.
>>
>> if NCUC or NPOC want to make their statements or own positions, they are not prevented to do so. having NCSG ensure having a more common positions and avoid building silos that won't communicate with each other and weaken them  . at NCSG we work to build a position that have consensus of larger group, don't you think that is really strong? constituencies can also send their own statement to defend other points than a common position if they want.
>>
>> It makes no sense that the same members that debate and reach consensus in NCUC and NPOC separately are the ones that debate about the same decision and reach a new and different consensus in the NCSG. The decision of NPOC and NCUC should be considered equal inside the NCSG and the NCSG decision should be a higher hierarchy consensus that brings together the already consensus made in NCUC and NPOC (a consensus of consensus in an upper level than the bottom stakeholder). I believe than the current process takes away consensus from the real bottoms, NPOC and NCUC, and brings a dysfunctional dynamic where NCUC and NPOC voices, especially NPOC’s, are diluted for no real reason thanks to a double representation of NCUC and NPCO members in the NCSG as NCSG members.
>>
>> the constituencies have the same representation in the executive and policy committees, so they are able to provide their positions via their representatives who should liaise with their constituencies, in particular for the latter regarding the policies.
>> at NCSG ,we allow all members to communicate and debate  together and so  avoid a silo effect that will prevent members of different groups from discussing with each other.
>>
>> we have real bottom-up process here: the individual and organizational members who can participate directly at NCSG level and expressing their ideas . don't you think that is really powerful and avoid voices trapped in structures level?
>>
>>
>> Just and idea, don't bite my head off!
>>
>>
>> no worry, all comments are welcome, it is learning space for everybody. hope that clarified things for you.
>>
>> Rafik
>>
>>
>>
>> 2014-09-22 11:10 GMT-03:00 Avri Doria <[log in to unmask]>:
>>
>> agree completely.
>>
>> avri
>>
>> On 22-Sep-14 04:40, Tapani Tarvainen wrote:
>>> Which brings me to one technical issue I've been harping about
>>> to various people privately for some time: I see little point
>>> in maintaining three distinct member databases, when two
>>> are (required to be) subsets of the third. It would be much
>>> easier to maintain just NCSG member database and have
>>> constituency membership there as an attribute
>>> (of course still leaving it up to each constituency to
>>> decide who they accept as their members, they just would
>>> not need to maintain members' contact info &c separately).
>>> This would make for an easy workflow for the three ECs,
>>> one place for members to check their membership details, &c.
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
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> 
>