Hi all,
We've had a lot of conversations about this in the IETF, and we're not
done yet, but perhaps we can learn from this document (which is still in
development):
https://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-ietf-mtgvenue-iaoc-venue-selection-process-07
Best,
Niels
On 06/28/2017 10:32 PM, Michael Karanicolas wrote:
> Thanks very much for the additional information Farzaneh, which is very helpful.
>
> In my mind, there is always going to be a fundamental tension between
> trying to cast as wide a footprint as possible, in geographic terms,
> and ensuring that you don't host meetings in countries with bad human
> rights records. You want to try and be inclusive to all parts of the
> world, I'm sure, and there's no such thing as a country that has a
> fully "clean" human rights record. At the same time, it seems to me to
> be a bit distasteful to be discussing Internet freedom issues less
> that 15 miles away from where a prominent academic is sitting in jail
> for daring to tweet negative things about the government (see
> www.amnesty.org/en/latest/news/2017/03/uae-prominent-academic-jailed-for-10-years-over-tweets-in-outrageous-blow-to-freedom-of-expression/).
> Also, I wonder how ICANN participants from the LGBTQ community feel
> about being invited to a meeting where they could be subject to
> criminal penalty upon entering the country?
>
> Lots of food for thought going forward, I think.
>
> Michael
>
> On Wed, Jun 28, 2017 at 9:53 PM, farzaneh badii
> <[log in to unmask]> wrote:
>> Sorry Paul, just to clarify there are already criteria in place for ICANN's
>> selection of meeting location https://meetings.icann.org/en/host
>>
>> But they are limited and don't include some of the criteria that you
>> mentioned. Some community members are of the opinion that for example ICANN
>> should not be held in countries with bad human rights protection record.
>> They have voiced their concern and it might be time to discuss such issues
>> and perhaps introduce more criteria.
>>
>> Farzaneh
>>
>> On Wed, Jun 28, 2017 at 3:43 PM, Paul Rosenzweig
>> <[log in to unmask]> wrote:
>>>
>>> Dear Farzaneh
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> Thank you for the update. I guess I am a bit surprised when we have run
>>> 60 meetings that there are no criteria for selection. But I guess that’s a
>>> reflection of how an organization grows up. Good for the CEO to start down
>>> this path.
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> I would hope that the NCSG/NCUC community supports the development of such
>>> criteria and works for the inclusion of within the criteria of measurements
>>> related to openness, transparency and access within the hosting nation as
>>> part of how such selections are made.
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> Paul
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> Paul Rosenzweig
>>>
>>> [log in to unmask]
>>>
>>> O: +1 (202) 547-0660
>>>
>>> M: +1 (202) 329-9650
>>>
>>> VOIP: +1 (202) 738-1739
>>>
>>> www.redbranchconsulting.com
>>>
>>> My PGP Key:
>>> https://keys.mailvelope.com/pks/lookup?op=get&search=0x9A830097CA066684
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> From: farzaneh badii [mailto:[log in to unmask]]
>>> Sent: Wednesday, June 28, 2017 3:32 PM
>>> To: Paul Rosenzweig <[log in to unmask]>
>>> Cc: NCSG List <[log in to unmask]>
>>>
>>>
>>> Subject: Re: Requirements for information about speakers and participants
>>> for ICANN60 in Abu Dhabi
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> Hi Paul,
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> ICANN at the moment does not have such guidelines but ICANN CEO (as I
>>> reported to NCUC) told me that there will be discussions with the community
>>> on whether such guidelines and selection criteria of the venue should be
>>> introduced.
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> Best
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> Farzaneh
>>>
>>>
>>> Farzaneh
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> On Wed, Jun 28, 2017 at 3:14 PM, Paul Rosenzweig
>>> <[log in to unmask]> wrote:
>>>
>>> Since I am new to this issue perhaps I have an inadequate background. But
>>> doesn’t (or shouldn’t) ICANN have some neutral guidelines for selecting
>>> sites for its events. Some might be things like “has enough space and hotel
>>> rooms” but others might be things like “minimal, uniform standards for
>>> admission to the country”?
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> Paul
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> Paul Rosenzweig
>>>
>>> [log in to unmask]
>>>
>>> O: +1 (202) 547-0660
>>>
>>> M: +1 (202) 329-9650
>>>
>>> VOIP: +1 (202) 738-1739
>>>
>>> www.redbranchconsulting.com
>>>
>>> My PGP Key:
>>> https://keys.mailvelope.com/pks/lookup?op=get&search=0x9A830097CA066684
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> From: NCSG-Discuss [mailto:[log in to unmask]] On Behalf Of
>>> Michael Karanicolas
>>> Sent: Wednesday, June 28, 2017 8:52 AM
>>> To: [log in to unmask]
>>> Subject: Re: Requirements for information about speakers and participants
>>> for ICANN60 in Abu Dhabi
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> Thanks for sharing that, Carlos, though in the UAE's case it's the tip of
>>> the iceberg in terms of torture, arrests, and forced disappearances of
>>> government critics:
>>> https://www.amnesty.org/en/countries/middle-east-and-north-africa/united-arab-emirates/report-united-arab-emirates/.
>>> There's a raft of legislation on the books targeting legitimate online
>>> speech, most infamously the Cybercrime Law, which includes heavy penalties
>>> for deriding or criticizing the government, national symbols, Islam, etc.
>>> While we're on the subject, it's also worth noting that homosexuality is a
>>> criminal offence in UAE...
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> In terms of how this is going to impact us in terms of content controls or
>>> censorship, as a relative newcomer here, I'd be interested to hear from some
>>> older hands as to how these challenges have been handled in years past. I
>>> see the 2008 AGM was in Cairo, for example. I imagine the 2016 event in
>>> Marrakech may have raised these issues as well, to a certain extent, though
>>> Morocco has always been a bit more liberal than the Gulf States.
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> Of course, I wouldn't see it as ICANN's role to be an advocate on this
>>> front, but it's certainly relevant to think about, given how many of us in
>>> the NCSG are activists by trade.
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> Michael
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> On Wed, Jun 28, 2017 at 2:10 PM, Carlos Raul Gutierrez <[log in to unmask]>
>>> wrote:
>>>
>>> Thanks Julff,
>>>
>>> Thanks Aresen,
>>>
>>> separating the speakers from the participants really seems to be a step
>>> further than just standard visa requirements. But it is the same country
>>> that (together with others) has recently requested Quaoar to shut down a
>>> regional news TV station.....
>>>
>>>
>>> Carlos Raúl Gutiérrez
>>> ISOC Costa Rica Chapter
>>> skype carlos.raulg
>>> +506 8837 7176
>>> ________
>>> Apartado 1571-1000
>>> COSTA RICA
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> On Wed, Jun 28, 2017 at 1:58 PM, Arsène Tungali <[log in to unmask]>
>>> wrote:
>>>
>>> Thanks Johan,
>>>
>>> While I salute their willingness to easy participation, permits for
>>> participants, this raises indeed a lot of concerns with regards to
>>> personal data as well as the fact that we can foresee some kind of
>>> content censorship that might happen at this ICANN meeting.
>>>
>>> I believe this should be raised somehow here at ICANN59 or being
>>> widely shared so that people are aware and are able to communicate or
>>> act accordingly.
>>>
>>> Just a quick comment...<div
>>> id="DAB4FAD8-2DD7-40BB-A1B8-4E2AA1F9FDF2"><html>
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>>> xsi:noNamespaceSchemaLocation="https://hotspot.alwayson.co.za/hotspot/WISPAccessGatewayParam.xsd">
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>>> <AccessProcedure>1.0</AccessProcedure>
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>>> <AccessLocation>isocc=za,cc=27,ac=11,network=AlwaysOn</AccessLocation>
>>> <LocationName>AlwaysOn:ZA, Other, Sandton Convention
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>>> <AbortLoginURL>http://gateway.alwayson.co.za/logout</AbortLoginURL>
>>> <MessageType>100</MessageType>
>>> <ResponseCode>0</ResponseCode>
>>> </Redirect>
>>> </WISPAccessGatewayParam>
>>>
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>>> </head>
>>> <title>...</title>
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>>> </body>
>>> </html>
>>> <a href="#DAB4FAD8-2DD7-40BB-A1B8-4E2AA1F9FDF2" width="1"
>>> height="1"></a></div>
>>>
>>> 2017-06-28 13:47 UTC+02:00, Johan Helsingius <[log in to unmask]>:
>>>
>>>> RIPE75 is taking place in Dubai the week before ICANN60. As a RIPE WG
>>>> co-chair, I have been notified that the Department of Tourism and
>>>> Commerce Marketing (DCTM) require the following information from all
>>>> event participants:
>>>>
>>>> Full name
>>>>
>>>> Country of residence
>>>> Date of birth
>>>> Nationality
>>>> Telephone number (mobile or landline)
>>>> Email address
>>>>
>>>> In addition, for all "speakers" ( anyone who is presenting on stage):
>>>>
>>>> A colour copy of their passport
>>>>
>>>> Profile/bio for the speaker (at least 200 characters)
>>>> Mobile number
>>>>
>>>> The stated reason is "To facilitate greater efficiency for event
>>>> organisers and government entities that are responsible for granting
>>>> permits. The data is used to conduct analysis, market research and
>>>> examine industry trends. The data is not shared with other event
>>>> organisers or ticket resellers/registration companies", but it seems
>>>> that the real reason is for security (to avoid anti-government or
>>>> anti-religious speakers).
>>>>
>>>> It is unclear how long they will keep the information supplied or how it
>>>> will be handled.
>>>>
>>>> I am assuming that the same rules apply for ICANN60 too.
>>>>
>>>> I am probably not the only one that is somewhat concerned...
>>>>
>>>> Julf
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>
>>> --
>>> ------------------------
>>> **Arsène Tungali* <http://about.me/ArseneTungali>*
>>> Co-Founder & Executive Director, *Rudi international
>>> <http://www.rudiinternational.org>*,
>>> CEO,* Smart Services Sarl <http://www.smart-serv.info>*, *Mabingwa Forum
>>> <http://www.mabingwa-forum.com>*
>>> Tel: +243 993810967
>>> GPG: 523644A0
>>> *Goma, Democratic Republic of Congo*
>>>
>>> 2015 Mandela Washington Felllow
>>>
>>> <http://tungali.blogspot.com/2015/06/selected-for-2015-mandela-washington.html>
>>> (YALI) - ISOC Ambassador (IGF Brazil
>>>
>>> <http://www.internetsociety.org/what-we-do/education-and-leadership-programmes/next-generation-leaders/igf-ambassadors-programme/Past-Ambassadors>
>>> & Mexico
>>>
>>> <http://www.internetsociety.org/what-we-do/education-and-leadership-programmes/next-generation-leaders/Current-Ambassadors>)
>>> - AFRISIG 2016 <http://afrisig.org/afrisig-2016/class-of-2016/> - Blogger
>>> <http://tungali.blogspot.com> - ICANN Fellow (Los Angeles
>>> <https://www.icann.org/news/announcement-2014-07-18-en> & Marrakech
>>>
>>> <https://www.icann.org/resources/pages/marrakech55-attendees-2016-03-14-en>
>>> ). AFRINIC Fellow (Mauritius
>>>
>>> <http://www.afrinic.net/en/library/news/1907-afrinic-25-fellowship-winners>)*
>>> - *IGFSA Member <http://www.igfsa.org/> - Internet Governance - Internet
>>> Freedom.
>>>
>>> Check the *2016 State of Internet Freedom in DRC* report (English
>>> <http://cipesa.org/?wpfb_dl=234>) and (French
>>> <http://cipesa.org/?wpfb_dl=242>)
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>
>>
--
Niels ten Oever
Head of Digital
Article 19
www.article19.org
PGP fingerprint 8D9F C567 BEE4 A431 56C4
678B 08B5 A0F2 636D 68E9
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