Hi Farzaneh,

Given that our charter specifically requires them to be subject
to membership approval, how was that done?

Tapani

On Sep 11 03:20, farzaneh badii ([log in to unmask]) wrote:

> Tapani
> 
> Those removal procedures were approved a couple of months ago and now on
> the website:
> https://community.icann.org/display/gnsononcomstake/Operating+Procedures#OperatingProcedures-169034239
> 
> I did in the other document that I shared mention that if we ever want to
> remove individual members that are official members of organizations, we
> can add the provisions to the removal procedures.
> 
> But we are not gonna do any of that now, so it's ok. If any future chair
> and Exec Committee and NCSG community decided to revisit the rule they
> should remember to add it to the removal procedure.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Farzaneh
> 
> 
> On Tue, Sep 11, 2018 at 3:13 AM Tapani Tarvainen <[log in to unmask]>
> wrote:
> 
> > Dear Farzaneh,
> >
> > What is the status of member removal procedures (that have
> > been worked on for some time now)?
> >
> > Since all approaches to the "dual voting" scenario would seem to imply
> > at least threat of removal, don't you think rules for handling them
> > should be considered and ideally approved together with the removal
> > procedures?
> >
> > Regards,
> >
> > Tapani
> >
> > On Sep 11 02:48, farzaneh badii ([log in to unmask]) wrote:
> >
> > > I thought about this Raoul again and read the previous threads looked at
> > > the past discussions, looked at the dual members. I think I am going to
> > > take the convenient approach and that is removing section 5 from the
> > > document. As you said you are the only opposition (I think I saw a plus 1
> > > from Farrell as well to one of your comments) but also I don't see much
> > > discussion here in its support of the paragraph.  I guess you don't have
> > an
> > > opposition to the rest of the document? can we approve that with the EC?
> > > People have been asking us for some guidelines for membership approval.
> > > Would be good to have them in place before Stephanie becomes chair.
> > >
> > >  I was after documenting NCSG processes so that leading and running it
> > > would be easier and less ad hoc and arbitrary.
> > >
> > >  I have added Robin Gross here. During Robin's term as chair, the
> > practice
> > > was that official reps could not be individual reps. This is just to
> > > reassure the members that I am not creating things out of thin air and
> > want
> > > to impose them here before I leave!. But looking at some of Robin's
> > > communications I have the impression that she could also agree with you
> > > that when it comes to voting, dual members can just choose.I cc'd her
> > here
> > > to correct me or see if she wants to weigh in.
> > >
> > > I have provided my reasons as to why I don't agree with your approach. I
> > > won't reiterate them. I still think I have a point. But a compromise here
> > > doesn't really harm NCSG. So I let it go.
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > Farzaneh
> > >
> > >
> > > On Mon, Sep 10, 2018 at 8:45 AM Raoul Plommer <[log in to unmask]> wrote:
> > >
> > > > It would be a all too convenient to silence pretty much the only vocal
> > > > opposition you've had to this arbitrary guideline so I'm not going to
> > > > recuse myself.
> > > >
> > > > I've posited us an alternative solution that I think is far less
> > > > bureaucratic and burdensome for our members and the EC. Until you can
> > give
> > > > me a better solution, I'm going to oppose these new guidelines.
> > > >
> > > > -Raoul
> > > >
> > > > On Mon, 10 Sep 2018 at 14:15, farzaneh badii <[log in to unmask]
> > >
> > > > wrote:
> > > >
> > > >> Not that exactly Raoul. Joly was not an individual member in the first
> > > >> place. But of course since he was a member for so long and doesn't
> > seem to
> > > >> have changed the noncommercial nature of his activities in DNS it can
> > be an
> > > >> easy fix.
> > > >>
> > > >> And we have not yet agreed on the rule not to have dual membership of
> > > >> official reps as individual members too so really we don't remove
> > those for
> > > >> now, also applicable to you as you are still an individual member and
> > an
> > > >> official rep.
> > > >>
> > > >> if  there is enough agreement to do that among the EC members and the
> > > >> NCSG in the future, we can do so and put the rule down hopefully
> > before the
> > > >> next elections.  since you are exactly in that situation I believe
> > you have
> > > >> to recuse yourself and let others talk. But that's my personal
> > opinion and
> > > >> will see what the rest of the EC and NCSG members think.
> > > >>
> > > >> On Mon, Sep 10, 2018 at 6:26 AM Raoul Plommer <[log in to unmask]>
> > wrote:
> > > >>
> > > >>> Joly's case is exactly what I mean by unnecessarily removing him as a
> > > >>> member of the NCSG and having to apply for a membership again.
> > > >>>
> > > >>> -Raoul
> > > >>>
> > > >>> On Mon, 10 Sep 2018 at 05:28, farzaneh badii <
> > [log in to unmask]>
> > > >>> wrote:
> > > >>>
> > > >>>> Hi Joly
> > > >>>>
> > > >>>> I think that is a good idea and we should add this somewhere either
> > in
> > > >>>> this doc or somewhere that people who generally want to leave look
> > for. If
> > > >>>> you want to be an individual member, you can apply again at this
> > link:
> > > >>>> https://members.ncsg.is/membership_application
> > > >>>>
> > > >>>> Maryam had sent you a confirmation email that our record has been
> > > >>>> updated and Shilli is the primary rep. Seems like you have not been
> > > >>>> unsubscribed from the NCSG mailing list.  I wonder if you have been
> > from
> > > >>>> NCUC since you sent an email to that list and resigned specifically
> > from
> > > >>>> NCUC. That is another thing that procedurally we need to think but
> > can be
> > > >>>> relatively easy.
> > > >>>>
> > > >>>> For now, you can re-apply, and we can unsubscribe you until your
> > > >>>> membership is evaluated and announced.
> > > >>>>
> > > >>>>
> > > >>>>
> > > >>>> Farzaneh
> > > >>>>
> > > >>>>
> > > >>>> On Sun, Sep 9, 2018 at 9:48 PM Joly MacFie <[log in to unmask]>
> > wrote:
> > > >>>>
> > > >>>>> So what is the process for someone like me, who no longer
> > represents
> > > >>>>> an org?
> > > >>>>>
> > > >>>>> I recently formally announced my resignation to the list. I note
> > that
> > > >>>>> I am yet to be suspended / removed.
> > > >>>>>
> > > >>>>> My suggestion would be that should happen, along there be some
> > formal
> > > >>>>> notice  - "Thank you for your service. Here's how to apply for
> > individual
> > > >>>>> membership.."
> > > >>>>>
> > > >>>>> j
> > > >>>>>
> > > >>>>>
> > > >>>>>
> > > >>>>>
> > > >>>>>
> > > >>>>> On Sun, Sep 9, 2018 at 9:43 AM, farzaneh badii <
> > > >>>>> [log in to unmask]> wrote:
> > > >>>>>
> > > >>>>>> Raoul
> > > >>>>>>
> > > >>>>>> These guidelines say that individual members cannot be official
> > > >>>>>> representative of their orgs. We have to discuss the latter but
> > we had many
> > > >>>>>> conversations before the election whether individuals can be
> > official reps
> > > >>>>>> of their org as well and many agreed that no they should not be
> > because
> > > >>>>>> they get voting rights. Are you against the  paragraph below?
> > > >>>>>>
> > > >>>>>>
> > > >>>>>> "5. Can I be an individual member as well as the representative
> > > >>>>>> member of my organization?
> > > >>>>>>
> > > >>>>>> No, that is not possible. You need to decide whether you want to
> > be
> > > >>>>>> the official representative of your organization at NCSG, or if
> > you want to
> > > >>>>>> be an individual member and not represent your organization. "
> > > >>>>>>
> > > >>>>>>
> > > >>>>>> We could clarify the last sentence that they can represent their
> > > >>>>>> organization as an additional member of the org if they wish. But
> > they
> > > >>>>>> won't have voting rights.
> > > >>>>>>
> > > >>>>>>
> > > >>>>>>
> > > >>>>>> On Sun, Sep 9, 2018 at 6:07 AM Raoul Plommer <[log in to unmask]>
> > > >>>>>> wrote:
> > > >>>>>>
> > > >>>>>>> I would not go for removing the dual membership. I see no harm in
> > > >>>>>>> having the individual having a personal and an organisational
> > identity in
> > > >>>>>>> the NCSG. It will create many repeat applications from people
> > that are
> > > >>>>>>> already active in our community, when they change organisation
> > or they want
> > > >>>>>>> to give room for new organisational representatives. They would
> > then have
> > > >>>>>>> to apply again and that's just a waste of time for everyone. IF
> > we need to
> > > >>>>>>> change something about it, it would be to remove the voting
> > right of the
> > > >>>>>>> other identity, basically, whichever had less weight.
> > > >>>>>>>
> > > >>>>>>>
> > > >>>>>>> -Raoul
> > > >>>>>>>
> > > >>>>>>> On Sun, 9 Sep 2018 at 01:22, farzaneh badii <
> > > >>>>>>> [log in to unmask]> wrote:
> > > >>>>>>>
> > > >>>>>>>> Hi all,
> > > >>>>>>>>
> > > >>>>>>>> I have incorporated your comments as much as I could and sent
> > this
> > > >>>>>>>> document to the Executive Committee for approval as well.
> > > >>>>>>>>
> > > >>>>>>>> This is to be reviewed by 14th of September.
> > > >>>>>>>>
> > > >>>>>>>> Best
> > > >>>>>>>> Farzaneh
> > > >>>>>>>>
> > > >>>>>>>>
> > > >>>>>>>> On Wed, Aug 1, 2018 at 3:59 AM farzaneh badii <
> > > >>>>>>>> [log in to unmask]> wrote:
> > > >>>>>>>>
> > > >>>>>>>>> All
> > > >>>>>>>>>
> > > >>>>>>>>> This is a brief membership approval process and members
> > > >>>>>>>>> application guideline.
> > > >>>>>>>>>
> > > >>>>>>>>> It is in the format of Q and A so that it's easier to read and
> > > >>>>>>>>> follow.
> > > >>>>>>>>>
> > > >>>>>>>>> Please comment, this is not a complete document and we would
> > like
> > > >>>>>>>>> to complete it with your help:
> > > >>>>>>>>>
> > > >>>>>>>>> Membership approval guidelines
> > > >>>>>>>>>
> > > >>>>>>>>>
> > https://docs.google.com/document/d/1vb4a7KnsDwqQlKCMkQx2y8DlykYkT2z3ODxMweGcxTE/edit?usp=sharing
> > > >>>>>>>>>
> > > >>>>>>>>> We will have until 21 August to finalize, add and remove from
> > the
> > > >>>>>>>>> document and then send to NCSG EC for comments.
> > > >>>>>>>>>
> > > >>>>>>>>> Best
> > > >>>>>>>>>
> > > >>>>>>>>> Farzaneh
> > > >>>>>>>>>
> > > >>>>>>>> --
> > > >>>>>> Farzaneh
> > > >>>>>>
> > > >>>>>
> > > >>>>>
> > > >>>>>
> > > >>>>> --
> > > >>>>> ---------------------------------------------------------------
> > > >>>>> Joly MacFie  218 565 9365 Skype:punkcast
> > > >>>>> --------------------------------------------------------------
> > > >>>>> -
> > > >>>>>
> > > >>>> --
> > > >> Farzaneh
> > > >>
> > > >
> >