I will avoid the question of culture but there are undeniably major differences in attitudes towards privacy within the EU as compared with the US, at least if the history of the respective legal frameworks concerning privacy are anything to go by. And I am emphatically not saying the European data protection authorities have handled everything perfectly but ICANN has form when it comes to WHOIS. Look at the levels of inaccuracy which it has tolerated for so long. Look also at how, in adopting its new bylaws, the status of WHOIS was immediately demoted once ICANN had escaped the clutches of the US Government and was able to retire the promises made in the Affirmation of Commitments.
ICANN was also very slow in getting its act together in responding to the GDPR. All of these things colour many people's attitudes towards ICANN and the current mess. There is not a high level of trust or confidence.
The way I see it WHOIS is a lot of bother and a cost which Registries and Registrars would be happy to ditch altogether. As long as they get paid why should Registries and Registrars care how their domains are actually being used and by whom? That's a problem for "someone else", not them. Even more to the point why should they care about maintaining an accurate accessible database that will, by definition, only be used by third parties, contributing little or nothing to the Registries' and Registrars' bottom line? Addressing the stability and security of the internet is easy to duck or postpone if your cash flow is under pressure today and you're working on low margins.
And remember, accuracy is a key and unavoidable requirement under the GDPR. So that portends even greater cost and hassle for Registries and Registrars.
John
-----Original Message-----
From: NCSG-Discuss <[log in to unmask]> On Behalf Of Mueller, Milton L
Sent: 04 June 2018 06:32
To: [log in to unmask]
Subject: Re: [Info] German Court Rules on ICANN Request to Preserve WHOIS Data
Pino
> Trying to deny cultural
> differences is the beginning of the end of any form of evolutive
> cooperation among people.
What? No one denied that cultural differences exist - indeed, there are massive cultural differences within Europe, and between regions of the US.
I am simply telling you that the so-called cultural differences have little to do with who lines up on which side of the Whois debate in ICANN. Economic interests and institutional positions explain a lot more. We gain little understanding of the situation by talking about "cultural differences" except that you piss off all the non-Europeans and convey a kind of smug superiority which isn't earned.
Theories have to stand the test of empirical reality. Before advancing your "cultural difference" theory please explain why all the European GAC members called upon ICANN to retain all current Whois data collection, for example. Does your theory explain this fact? Are they somehow not part of European culture? Did they not get the memo? By the way do you know which GAC statements I am referring to? Do you know what the GAC is?
Stereotypes such as "USA approach to political science: avoiding any divisive subject trying to force political correctness into everything" = just bizarre. Pay attention to what is actually happening here. Listen to what people actually say, as individuals. Look beyond crude pre-conceived generalizations about culture, people, academic disciplines and national origin. You've got a lot to learn about the ICANN environment and as you learn more I will be more than happy to engage in "debate and strong rhetoric" with you.
--MM
> -----Original Message-----
> From: NCSG-Discuss [mailto:[log in to unmask]] On Behalf Of
> Moritz Bartl
> Sent: Sunday, June 3, 2018 9:52 PM
> To: [log in to unmask]
> Subject: Re: [Info] German Court Rules on ICANN Request to Preserve
> WHOIS Data
>
> On 04.06.2018 01:15, Giuseppe De Francesco wrote:
Only by dealing with who we are we can
> > overcome what is divisive to learn cooperation. This is one of the
> > problems in USA approach to political science: avoiding any divisive
> > subject trying to force political correctness into everything. This
> > as well is due to strong cultural differences: Mediterranean
> > civilizations thrive in debate and love strong rethorics applied to
> > arguing cases without hiding differences. Avoiding to talk about
> > differences is not helpful, actually it will cause even wider
> > divides on the long run because each side will be in denioal until
> > can no longer keep
> it silent.
> > This is a major problem in how public policies are analysed drafted,
> > at least this is my opinion.
>
> Thanks Pino, I agree wholeheartedly with this and your earlier statement.
>
> While I'm at it, I want to congratulate the court on its well-informed decision.
> Sorry, but I don't know if I have to laugh or cry at the ICANN
> statement about not achieving "the clarity that ICANN was seeking".
> Sorry, but who is the individual who wrote this? Do they think people
> are stupid?
>
> Greetings to everyone from Earth, Europe, Germany, Bavaria, Augsburg,
>
> Moritz
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