Operating procedures are an executive committee function and always have been.

> -----Original Message-----
> From: NCSG-Discuss [mailto:[log in to unmask]] On Behalf
> Of Tapani Tarvainen
> Sent: Tuesday, September 11, 2018 3:47 AM
> To: [log in to unmask]
> Subject: Re: [For comment] Membership approval guidelines
> 
> Hi Farzaneh,
> 
> Given that our charter specifically requires them to be subject to
> membership approval, how was that done?
> 
> Tapani
> 
> On Sep 11 03:20, farzaneh badii ([log in to unmask]) wrote:
> 
> > Tapani
> >
> > Those removal procedures were approved a couple of months ago and
> now
> > on the website:
> >
> https://community.icann.org/display/gnsononcomstake/Operating+Procedu
> r
> > es#OperatingProcedures-169034239
> >
> > I did in the other document that I shared mention that if we ever want
> > to remove individual members that are official members of
> > organizations, we can add the provisions to the removal procedures.
> >
> > But we are not gonna do any of that now, so it's ok. If any future
> > chair and Exec Committee and NCSG community decided to revisit the
> > rule they should remember to add it to the removal procedure.
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > Farzaneh
> >
> >
> > On Tue, Sep 11, 2018 at 3:13 AM Tapani Tarvainen
> > <[log in to unmask]>
> > wrote:
> >
> > > Dear Farzaneh,
> > >
> > > What is the status of member removal procedures (that have been
> > > worked on for some time now)?
> > >
> > > Since all approaches to the "dual voting" scenario would seem to
> > > imply at least threat of removal, don't you think rules for handling
> > > them should be considered and ideally approved together with the
> > > removal procedures?
> > >
> > > Regards,
> > >
> > > Tapani
> > >
> > > On Sep 11 02:48, farzaneh badii ([log in to unmask]) wrote:
> > >
> > > > I thought about this Raoul again and read the previous threads
> > > > looked at the past discussions, looked at the dual members. I
> > > > think I am going to take the convenient approach and that is
> > > > removing section 5 from the document. As you said you are the only
> > > > opposition (I think I saw a plus 1 from Farrell as well to one of
> > > > your comments) but also I don't see much discussion here in its
> > > > support of the paragraph.  I guess you don't have
> > > an
> > > > opposition to the rest of the document? can we approve that with the
> EC?
> > > > People have been asking us for some guidelines for membership
> approval.
> > > > Would be good to have them in place before Stephanie becomes chair.
> > > >
> > > >  I was after documenting NCSG processes so that leading and
> > > > running it would be easier and less ad hoc and arbitrary.
> > > >
> > > >  I have added Robin Gross here. During Robin's term as chair, the
> > > practice
> > > > was that official reps could not be individual reps. This is just
> > > > to reassure the members that I am not creating things out of thin
> > > > air and
> > > want
> > > > to impose them here before I leave!. But looking at some of
> > > > Robin's communications I have the impression that she could also
> > > > agree with you that when it comes to voting, dual members can just
> > > > choose.I cc'd her
> > > here
> > > > to correct me or see if she wants to weigh in.
> > > >
> > > > I have provided my reasons as to why I don't agree with your
> > > > approach. I won't reiterate them. I still think I have a point.
> > > > But a compromise here doesn't really harm NCSG. So I let it go.
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > Farzaneh
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > On Mon, Sep 10, 2018 at 8:45 AM Raoul Plommer
> <[log in to unmask]> wrote:
> > > >
> > > > > It would be a all too convenient to silence pretty much the only
> > > > > vocal opposition you've had to this arbitrary guideline so I'm
> > > > > not going to recuse myself.
> > > > >
> > > > > I've posited us an alternative solution that I think is far less
> > > > > bureaucratic and burdensome for our members and the EC. Until
> > > > > you can
> > > give
> > > > > me a better solution, I'm going to oppose these new guidelines.
> > > > >
> > > > > -Raoul
> > > > >
> > > > > On Mon, 10 Sep 2018 at 14:15, farzaneh badii
> > > > > <[log in to unmask]
> > > >
> > > > > wrote:
> > > > >
> > > > >> Not that exactly Raoul. Joly was not an individual member in
> > > > >> the first place. But of course since he was a member for so
> > > > >> long and doesn't
> > > seem to
> > > > >> have changed the noncommercial nature of his activities in DNS
> > > > >> it can
> > > be an
> > > > >> easy fix.
> > > > >>
> > > > >> And we have not yet agreed on the rule not to have dual
> > > > >> membership of official reps as individual members too so really
> > > > >> we don't remove
> > > those for
> > > > >> now, also applicable to you as you are still an individual
> > > > >> member and
> > > an
> > > > >> official rep.
> > > > >>
> > > > >> if  there is enough agreement to do that among the EC members
> > > > >> and the NCSG in the future, we can do so and put the rule down
> > > > >> hopefully
> > > before the
> > > > >> next elections.  since you are exactly in that situation I
> > > > >> believe
> > > you have
> > > > >> to recuse yourself and let others talk. But that's my personal
> > > opinion and
> > > > >> will see what the rest of the EC and NCSG members think.
> > > > >>
> > > > >> On Mon, Sep 10, 2018 at 6:26 AM Raoul Plommer
> > > > >> <[log in to unmask]>
> > > wrote:
> > > > >>
> > > > >>> Joly's case is exactly what I mean by unnecessarily removing
> > > > >>> him as a member of the NCSG and having to apply for a
> membership again.
> > > > >>>
> > > > >>> -Raoul
> > > > >>>
> > > > >>> On Mon, 10 Sep 2018 at 05:28, farzaneh badii <
> > > [log in to unmask]>
> > > > >>> wrote:
> > > > >>>
> > > > >>>> Hi Joly
> > > > >>>>
> > > > >>>> I think that is a good idea and we should add this somewhere
> > > > >>>> either
> > > in
> > > > >>>> this doc or somewhere that people who generally want to leave
> > > > >>>> look
> > > for. If
> > > > >>>> you want to be an individual member, you can apply again at
> > > > >>>> this
> > > link:
> > > > >>>> https://members.ncsg.is/membership_application
> > > > >>>>
> > > > >>>> Maryam had sent you a confirmation email that our record has
> > > > >>>> been updated and Shilli is the primary rep. Seems like you
> > > > >>>> have not been unsubscribed from the NCSG mailing list.  I
> > > > >>>> wonder if you have been
> > > from
> > > > >>>> NCUC since you sent an email to that list and resigned
> > > > >>>> specifically
> > > from
> > > > >>>> NCUC. That is another thing that procedurally we need to
> > > > >>>> think but
> > > can be
> > > > >>>> relatively easy.
> > > > >>>>
> > > > >>>> For now, you can re-apply, and we can unsubscribe you until
> > > > >>>> your membership is evaluated and announced.
> > > > >>>>
> > > > >>>>
> > > > >>>>
> > > > >>>> Farzaneh
> > > > >>>>
> > > > >>>>
> > > > >>>> On Sun, Sep 9, 2018 at 9:48 PM Joly MacFie
> > > > >>>> <[log in to unmask]>
> > > wrote:
> > > > >>>>
> > > > >>>>> So what is the process for someone like me, who no longer
> > > represents
> > > > >>>>> an org?
> > > > >>>>>
> > > > >>>>> I recently formally announced my resignation to the list. I
> > > > >>>>> note
> > > that
> > > > >>>>> I am yet to be suspended / removed.
> > > > >>>>>
> > > > >>>>> My suggestion would be that should happen, along there be
> > > > >>>>> some
> > > formal
> > > > >>>>> notice  - "Thank you for your service. Here's how to apply
> > > > >>>>> for
> > > individual
> > > > >>>>> membership.."
> > > > >>>>>
> > > > >>>>> j
> > > > >>>>>
> > > > >>>>>
> > > > >>>>>
> > > > >>>>>
> > > > >>>>>
> > > > >>>>> On Sun, Sep 9, 2018 at 9:43 AM, farzaneh badii <
> > > > >>>>> [log in to unmask]> wrote:
> > > > >>>>>
> > > > >>>>>> Raoul
> > > > >>>>>>
> > > > >>>>>> These guidelines say that individual members cannot be
> > > > >>>>>> official representative of their orgs. We have to discuss
> > > > >>>>>> the latter but
> > > we had many
> > > > >>>>>> conversations before the election whether individuals can
> > > > >>>>>> be
> > > official reps
> > > > >>>>>> of their org as well and many agreed that no they should
> > > > >>>>>> not be
> > > because
> > > > >>>>>> they get voting rights. Are you against the  paragraph below?
> > > > >>>>>>
> > > > >>>>>>
> > > > >>>>>> "5. Can I be an individual member as well as the
> > > > >>>>>> representative member of my organization?
> > > > >>>>>>
> > > > >>>>>> No, that is not possible. You need to decide whether you
> > > > >>>>>> want to
> > > be
> > > > >>>>>> the official representative of your organization at NCSG,
> > > > >>>>>> or if
> > > you want to
> > > > >>>>>> be an individual member and not represent your organization.
> "
> > > > >>>>>>
> > > > >>>>>>
> > > > >>>>>> We could clarify the last sentence that they can represent
> > > > >>>>>> their organization as an additional member of the org if
> > > > >>>>>> they wish. But
> > > they
> > > > >>>>>> won't have voting rights.
> > > > >>>>>>
> > > > >>>>>>
> > > > >>>>>>
> > > > >>>>>> On Sun, Sep 9, 2018 at 6:07 AM Raoul Plommer
> > > > >>>>>> <[log in to unmask]>
> > > > >>>>>> wrote:
> > > > >>>>>>
> > > > >>>>>>> I would not go for removing the dual membership. I see no
> > > > >>>>>>> harm in having the individual having a personal and an
> > > > >>>>>>> organisational
> > > identity in
> > > > >>>>>>> the NCSG. It will create many repeat applications from
> > > > >>>>>>> people
> > > that are
> > > > >>>>>>> already active in our community, when they change
> > > > >>>>>>> organisation
> > > or they want
> > > > >>>>>>> to give room for new organisational representatives. They
> > > > >>>>>>> would
> > > then have
> > > > >>>>>>> to apply again and that's just a waste of time for
> > > > >>>>>>> everyone. IF
> > > we need to
> > > > >>>>>>> change something about it, it would be to remove the
> > > > >>>>>>> voting
> > > right of the
> > > > >>>>>>> other identity, basically, whichever had less weight.
> > > > >>>>>>>
> > > > >>>>>>>
> > > > >>>>>>> -Raoul
> > > > >>>>>>>
> > > > >>>>>>> On Sun, 9 Sep 2018 at 01:22, farzaneh badii <
> > > > >>>>>>> [log in to unmask]> wrote:
> > > > >>>>>>>
> > > > >>>>>>>> Hi all,
> > > > >>>>>>>>
> > > > >>>>>>>> I have incorporated your comments as much as I could and
> > > > >>>>>>>> sent
> > > this
> > > > >>>>>>>> document to the Executive Committee for approval as well.
> > > > >>>>>>>>
> > > > >>>>>>>> This is to be reviewed by 14th of September.
> > > > >>>>>>>>
> > > > >>>>>>>> Best
> > > > >>>>>>>> Farzaneh
> > > > >>>>>>>>
> > > > >>>>>>>>
> > > > >>>>>>>> On Wed, Aug 1, 2018 at 3:59 AM farzaneh badii <
> > > > >>>>>>>> [log in to unmask]> wrote:
> > > > >>>>>>>>
> > > > >>>>>>>>> All
> > > > >>>>>>>>>
> > > > >>>>>>>>> This is a brief membership approval process and members
> > > > >>>>>>>>> application guideline.
> > > > >>>>>>>>>
> > > > >>>>>>>>> It is in the format of Q and A so that it's easier to
> > > > >>>>>>>>> read and follow.
> > > > >>>>>>>>>
> > > > >>>>>>>>> Please comment, this is not a complete document and we
> > > > >>>>>>>>> would
> > > like
> > > > >>>>>>>>> to complete it with your help:
> > > > >>>>>>>>>
> > > > >>>>>>>>> Membership approval guidelines
> > > > >>>>>>>>>
> > > > >>>>>>>>>
> > >
> https://docs.google.com/document/d/1vb4a7KnsDwqQlKCMkQx2y8DlykYkT
> 2z3
> > > ODxMweGcxTE/edit?usp=sharing
> > > > >>>>>>>>>
> > > > >>>>>>>>> We will have until 21 August to finalize, add and remove
> > > > >>>>>>>>> from
> > > the
> > > > >>>>>>>>> document and then send to NCSG EC for comments.
> > > > >>>>>>>>>
> > > > >>>>>>>>> Best
> > > > >>>>>>>>>
> > > > >>>>>>>>> Farzaneh
> > > > >>>>>>>>>
> > > > >>>>>>>> --
> > > > >>>>>> Farzaneh
> > > > >>>>>>
> > > > >>>>>
> > > > >>>>>
> > > > >>>>>
> > > > >>>>> --
> > > > >>>>> ------------------------------------------------------------
> > > > >>>>> --- Joly MacFie  218 565 9365 Skype:punkcast
> > > > >>>>> ------------------------------------------------------------
> > > > >>>>> --
> > > > >>>>> -
> > > > >>>>>
> > > > >>>> --
> > > > >> Farzaneh
> > > > >>
> > > > >
> > >