>>> [log in to unmask] 9/3/2004 10:08:11 PM >>>
I agree with these names. I would rather have Kilnam
for AP but if he is not able to work because of an injury,
Paul Wilson is OK with me.
My apologies for not having participated in the chat session.
Our firewall system crashed that night and I had to do the
system reconfig myself.
>>> "Valerie Gordon" <[log in to unmask]> 9/6/2004 6:37:34 AM >>>
Milton I am still on the road(Barbados) but running home from the hurricane today. The list looks fine.
Please proceed.
Valerie
IM SESSION LOG <some jokes edited> (9/2/2004, 9:30am - 11:00 am EDT)
Never give out your password or credit card
number in an instant message conversation.
[log in to unmask] says:
oh that's funny
Claude has been added to the conversation.
[log in to unmask] says:
yay
Milton says:
aha, here he is
[log in to unmask] says:
who did that?
Milton says:
I think I did. there is an "invite someone to this conversation" button
Claude says:
Hello!
Claude says:
Suddenly I feel so online.
Milton says:
Claude says:
I'l have to refresh my firewall, I feel vulnarable.
Claude says:
OK, Are you still there?
Milton says:
well, if it's only us three, we may as well have stuck with iliya.de
Claude says:
Well, may I welcome you to this brand new chatroom cortesy of Microsoft.
[log in to unmask] says:
nope. shall we give em a minute? i can go and send a quick reminder e-mail. Thank you for the welcome "against_my_principles"
Milton says:
sure, send them a message
[log in to unmask] says:
Claude says:
Claude? Oh, you mean claude Shannon, I guess?
Milton says:
I discussed the WGIG with John Mathiason yesterday (a colleague with lots of UN experience). He says that it would be very unusual, if not unprecedented, for a Secretary-General's WG not to support financially the travel of its members.
Milton says:
claude shannon, the towering mathematical genius, welcome
Claude says:
I love it - MS boosts out my identity and I do not now how. Anyway, I registered as Claude Shannon, a enginer
Milton says:
ok, I get it
Claude says:
-- who said that the "digital revolution" would change the world.
Claude says:
He said that 1948.
[log in to unmask] says:
I wonder how much time the wg members will have to spend travelling, etc. - whether they can work regular jobs as well
Milton says:
what about logging of this conversation? Adam wants to look over our shoulders...
[log in to unmask] says:
under view, there's something about conversation history. we just have to figure out how to use it. Otherwise, copy and paste.
[log in to unmask] says:
http://help.msn.com/EN_US/frameset.asp?INI=macmsgv40.ini&H_VER=2. 6&H_APP=MSN%20Messenger
Milton says:
Frannie, stop swearing
Claude says:
As I said, I just join, you organise it this time.
[log in to unmask] says:
sorry, can't help it
Milton says:
ok, copy and paste works. you just use "select all" under edit and then copy and paste to a text file
[log in to unmask] says:
You can save a specific Messenger conversation as a Web page that you can view by using a Web browser. This is a good way to save a specific conversation for later viewing without keeping the entire history.
Claude says:
Are we going to start or what?
Milton says:
yes, let's
Milton says:
Let's start with Africa.
Technical: Adiel Akplogan
Policy: Olivier Nana Nzepa, Anriette Esterhuysen, Thierry
Amoussogbo
Milton says:
Adiel is someone associated with the emergent AFRINIC, i.e.,
the address registry for Africa
[log in to unmask] says:
Olivier would be good. What else do you know about Adiel?
Milton says:
how much do you know about Olivier??
ok, so frannie, you have worked with Olivier recently? All I know is that he showed up for 2 ICANN meetings, joined ncuc, is very friendly, and is associated with thierry's african list discussion IG issues
Claude says:
I for my part can only say that I feel unqualified to judge.
[log in to unmask] says:
he's also very well connected to the NGO community there, head of the african wsis caucus, and chaired the tunisia crazy meeting... ie "capable of working in an intensly politicized environment"
Milton says:
that;s great
Milton says:
I did not know about the Tunisia meeting.
[log in to unmask] says:
I think he's responsive and very well involved - I'd like to nominate him
Milton says:
so you prefer him over Anriette and Thierry?
[log in to unmask] says:
there's a video on andy carvin's blog of the almost-brawl
[log in to unmask] says:
I only know Thierry through here so others would know better than I - I was hoping he'd be on this "chat"
Milton says:
whatever we decide, we must run the african selections by Thierry, get some discussion, and confirmation
[log in to unmask] says:
agreed
Milton says:
what about anriette then?
[log in to unmask] says:
what did you say about adiel - did I miss that?
Milton says:
Adiel I know little about, except that he is making presentations about AfriNIC.
Milton says:
He therefore seems to have strong technical qualifications and to be someone like Raul of LAC, with a foot in CS, business and technical camps
[log in to unmask] says:
how strong is his foot in CS?
Milton says:
don't know, we would have to rely on theirry for that
[log in to unmask] says:
okay, well. I'd say, that if he's strongly recommended by Thierry, it would be good to nominate Adiel and Olivier. If he isn't as highly recommended, I'd like to go out of the 1 tech, 1 policy framework and nominate Olivier and Anriette
[log in to unmask] says:
thoughts?
Claude says:
OK, let'sl see what Thierry has to add.
[log in to unmask] says:
okay. Asia?
Milton says:
yes, I'd wait for Thierry. I think I would prefer Olivier and Adiel, but would want T. to confirm it. Nothing against Anriette, of course, just think it is important to not overrepresent one org. (APC)
[log in to unmask] says:
assuming we nominate karen for europe
Milton says:
On Asia, I learned that Kilnam Chon, who would be GREAT for the technical person, had a climbing accident which nearly destroyed his pelvis and some other bones, and is recovering, will not be able to travel until Feb.
[log in to unmask] says:
oh god. that's terrible
Milton says:
I have great confidence in Eung Hwi Chun, IF he is supported for travel and If he is committed to do it.
[log in to unmask] says:
chun over aizu?
Milton says:
Eung Hwi is deeply embedded in the Korean ccTLD and IG community, has ties to the cctld operator KRNIC but has nevertheless remained independent and critical of it and the national govt policies.
[log in to unmask] says:
and pindar wong vs paul wilson
Milton says:
Yes, I would prefer Chun over Izumi for a variety of complex reasons. Izumi is very visible and would be a strong player, which is good, however, he is mainly concerned with process issues - representation of netizens, etc. and i think that the WGIG will need to have more positions on substantive policy issues, which i think chun is better at
[log in to unmask] says:
okay. good reasoning
Milton says:
by the way, did horacio ever respond to this meeting notice
[log in to unmask] says:
nope
[log in to unmask] says:
don't know what happened to everyone.
Milton says:
OK, we will have to run Asian selections by him via email. I'm sure he will respond
Milton says:
On Paul Wilson v. Pindar, I think it is an easy choice. However, I am not completely happy with either one. Wilson is great as a RIR representative. you couldn't ask for a more accessible and intelligent person. problem is his "CS" status. This has been discussed on our list and on the caucus list as well
[log in to unmask] says:
oh, why?
Milton says:
btw horacio agreed with me on the list re: Pindar being more of a business rep than a CS rep
[log in to unmask] says:
sounds like we're going with Paul
Milton says:
Another alternative is to nominate Chon subject to health reasons and Wilson as alternate.
[log in to unmask] says:
Claude, you there?
Claude says:
Yes.
[log in to unmask] says:
I don't want to put that kind of responsibility on someone who's enduring such difficulties in life. It's more than travel
[log in to unmask] says:
If he'd really like to do it despite his health, then great, but I can't imagine going through that and taking on this task
Claude says:
I would put my trust in Chun and agree that Pindar Wong has close ties to business.
Milton says:
yes, the approach i suggested would make it easy for him to decline if he wanted to.
[log in to unmask] says:
i understand
Claude says:
We can ask Chon (about whom I do not know enough to judge)
Milton says:
but it may be just a waste of time to try to play things so finely, so maybe we should just nominate Wilson, or no one at all
Milton says:
I did ask Chon, he didn't quite say no, he just said that he wouldn't be able to travel until Feb.
Claude says:
I'm ... uneasy with discussing someones health on a public list.
Milton says:
Well, Kilnam put a powerpoint file with X-rays of his pelvis up on the Internet
[log in to unmask] says:
oh well that's good to know. I'd say if he's miles better than Wilson we should do the first suggestion, if not, then we should pick Wilson. No need to make him look like a second choice to the working group.
[log in to unmask] says:
don't ya think? I think we should present them as having the desired qualifications... our top choices
Milton says:
OK, subject to confirmation by Horacio, I'll go with Wilson. Also, Eung Hwi is closely associated with Kilnam, and both are from Korea.
[log in to unmask] says:
great. Europe?
Milton says:
tough choices here on the policy side
[log in to unmask] says:
I know. I'd really like to see what Marco Cappato does with this role
[log in to unmask] says:
wish we could nominate Vittorio, Karen and Marco
Claude says:
I have tried to find out more about Marco and probably will get some responses by MdEPs.
Milton says:
so do i
Milton says:
when would you receive these responses from MdEPs?
Claude says:
Ah, within this week.
Claude says:
It's just that I never heard of him so far.
Claude says:
EP is slowly recovering from last elections.
[log in to unmask] says:
It would be good to have either Karen or Anriette as a nominee. I know this is treating them like they're interchangeable, one human being, but they're both great and work together so well anyway
Claude says:
Long holidays.
Claude says:
Karen is my favourite, after all that I have heard about her.
[log in to unmask] says:
she rocks
Milton says:
He has his own domain http://www.marcocappato.it/
Milton says:
What have you heard about Karen? any direct experience?
Claude says:
Yes, I know that marco has a domain, but since he is European, I wanted some first-hand impressions.
Milton says:
ok
[log in to unmask] says:
he's great on privacy, on intellectual property, on governance. Karen has direct experience with the ICT TF - a long history of experience from what I understand
[log in to unmask] says:
My colleague here from Belgium is a huge fan of Cappato - I could ask him to give more info
Claude says:
I have no "direct experience" about Karen (flights to London are about €20,- at the moment, but I have no time).
Claude says:
But everyone I asked spoke in the highest tones of her.
Milton says:
We could create a "global/nonregional" category and put Karen into that. It's appropriate anyway, she's part of a global NGO and is Australian nationality, lives in Europe.
Milton says:
hope your ears are ok after all those high tones
Claude says:
Jaja. You know I meant respect.
Claude says:
My son just switched on his children song CD, which makes it a bit more difficult to think in English.
[log in to unmask] says:
with a deeper network and more visibility (having been on the European Parliament) Cappato might have a big impact, but she's tough, knowledgeable and so involved and I really want her to be on there as well.
Milton says:
ha. i have chased my son out of the room, fortunately, but another invasion may be imminent
Claude says:
Nice Germanism, anyway.
[log in to unmask] says:
< )
Milton says:
so, fw, what did you think of my global category idea
[log in to unmask] says:
wish I was listening to a german childrens' CD
Claude says:
The EP has certainly grown. I am not always ... convinced the EU is on the right track.
[log in to unmask] says:
love the global category idea - love it
Milton says:
would you say it.....um, "rocks"?
Claude says:
Well, we still have this limit of about 10 people.
[log in to unmask] says:
it so rocks
[log in to unmask] says:
where did the limit come from?
Claude says:
It's a self-imposed limit that we deducted from general political experience and Miltons shoe size.
Milton says:
so we are dumping Meryem?
[log in to unmask] says:
I wouldn't say dumping, cuz she's great too... that's why she's on this list. But I'd say the choice is between the other two in my book
[log in to unmask] says:
Meryem is excellent on human rights, but the other two are as well and I think have been more involved in IG
Milton says:
ok, what about vittorio?
Claude says:
I agree to Frannie.
[log in to unmask] says:
I'd like Vittorio to get the tech nomination
Claude says:
Vittorio... hm. He's pretty unique on the "technical" list. No technicans in Europe? But the "Politicians" are stronger in my view.
[log in to unmask] says:
Marc never nominated anyone did he
Milton says:
there are pluses and negatives imho. Plus: he is ALAC, although its claim to represent "the public" is fairly weak, Vittorio is committed to the idea anyway; his technical knowledge is quite good. Negative: he is not a strong force, fairly junior, may not have the stature needed
[log in to unmask] says:
I agree with all, except I'd say that when he speaks up he's great - always good suggestions and speaks diplomatically and with experience. He's been very involved so his stature is building... and as you say, there aren't many other European techicians for the pickins!
Milton says:
there are lots, we just didn't get any nominated
Claude says:
Well, Adam's comment was right that this is more something for the "policy" part of NCUC.
[log in to unmask] says:
Agreed. Roessler, Keller... that's all I know
So are we choosing Vittorio?
Milton says:
what does Mr. Shannon say, please calculate a result for us
Claude says:
Oh dear.
Claude says:
If we push Karen into the international category...
Claude says:
That would leave Vittorio and Marco.
Milton says:
Yes...
Claude says:
If we place Karen in Europe, I for my part would vote for Karen and Marco.
Milton says:
that's another option
Milton says:
creating a special category for Karen could look a bit suspicious
Claude says:
The technical/political thing is just a suggestion, anyway.
Claude says:
Time warning: I have only a few minutes left.
Milton says:
Karen could "pass" as technical. APC got its start as ISPs, I think
Claude says:
(yn)
Milton says:
Ok, what about North America? Iliya, you put Drake's name forward - any reason for that other than that Jeanette told you to?
Claude says:
Well, also I wanted to see how you reacted.
Milton says:
so how did I react?
Claude says:
We call that a "balloon" in German. Let it rise and see who shoots it down.
[log in to unmask] says:
oh no.. we better hurry. I think it would be fine to create the global category... after all her work is global... this process is global
Milton says:
but there is no real support for him from you?
[log in to unmask] says:
:-#
[log in to unmask] says:
I say let's go with Karl and Susan
Claude says:
Relatively well. But you, ah, smelled the roast. Another expression.
Milton says:
There is strong support for Karl. And if anyone has a right to claim an ability to represent CS on this WGIG, he does. Of course, there is strong opposition to him as well, which needs to be recognized.
[log in to unmask] says:
Bill could actually be in the global category with Karen. Smelled the roast? That's great. What does it mean?
Claude says:
No, I am fine with having discussed him as a candidate, he would certainly be good on the job.
Claude says:
Well, if you smell the roast you know that it is only a trap.
[log in to unmask] says:
Karl's one of the best on this list from all regions in my opinion. I really want to support his participation in the WG. Ah, I like "smelled the roast"
Milton says:
For the record, I support Karl but am concerned about his ability to actively forge political deals that can get things done, however this is less of a problem in a WG writing a report than it was on the Board.
Claude says:
Karl and Susan are a good choice. Like everyone, I ama bit uncertain about Karl but willing to trust him.
Claude says:
However, I think he might be considered to have too difficult a past by some pople higher up in the decision chain.
[log in to unmask] says:
thank you. who are we talking about?
Claude says:
It's a pity, because this is probably what some people at ICANN want.
Claude says:
Karl.
Milton says:
Karl would be supported by some higher ups as well. Susan is a law professor with good background in ICANN and connections to other issues. One reason I favor her over Bill is ideological diversity. I.e., what I know of Bill's views would be represented well by Karen Banks but Susan has a different perspective that favors decentralized decision making
[log in to unmask] says:
Ah. great. I support karl and susan
Claude says:
Well, it's OK with me.
[log in to unmask] says:
would you prefer something else?
No, it's OK. I'm just trying to mask my enthusiasm.
[log in to unmask] says:
8-| don't have a mask, but how about the glasses
Milton says:
Iliya, not claude, ok Adam?
Claude says:
Huh?
[log in to unmask] says:
:-*
[log in to unmask] says:
:-#
Milton says:
oh stop
[log in to unmask] says:
okay, latin america?
[log in to unmask] says:
I'd choose Carlos for policy and I don't know the techies
Claude says:
I'm afraid, but you will have to go there on your own. I have to leave now.
Milton says:
One thing to note is that Erick sent me a private message withdrawing his name from policy, for "personal reasons"
Milton says:
He authorized me to forward that message to you. I will do so if I can find it buried under my inbox
[log in to unmask] says:
okay. good to know.
Claude says:
Once more, I am unable to decide.
Milton says:
Agree that Carlos is good for policy, can't tell whether he wants to do it, he showed little interest in the nomination exercise
Milton says:
Latin America
Technical: Raul Echeberria and Florencio Utreras
Policy: Oscar Robles (LACTLD), Carlos Afonso (RITS), Francisco
Lopez-Bermudez
[log in to unmask] says:
Iliya, we'll continue the conversation over e-mail... get Thierry, Horacio and Valerie's opinions, etc.
[log in to unmask] says:
maybe he showed little interest because he wanted to be nominated??
Milton says:
Raul is acceptable to me as technical person. He is responsible, has some ties to CS, participated actively in NCUC a long time ago.
Milton says:
but we have that RIR problem again.
Claude says:
OK. Talk to you later. Let me see if I find something... What about this:
[log in to unmask] says:
didn't want to suggest himself?
Milton says:
I interpreted it differently.
[log in to unmask] says:
I didn't know how to interpret it
[log in to unmask] says:
what about oscar?
Milton says:
but carlos is a very good choice given that he spans ncuc and wsis-cs
Milton says:
oscar is a cctld person. when he represented ncdnhc within ICANN he was very silent and did little, so it is hard to tell what he would do. Raul would be much better.
[log in to unmask] says:
I think we should pick Carlos and Raul then and see what Horacio has to say
Milton says:
you mean valerie?
Milton says:
but what about this name you put forward, francisco lopez-bermudez
[log in to unmask] says:
yes, Valerie
[log in to unmask] says:
I like him, he's helpful on the human right issues, but I'd prefer Carlos because of his involvement on the CS IG caucus and in NCUC
Milton says:
ok, well, Raul and Carlos are pretty good choices, imho -- IF Carlos is interested. Problem is, he is so good for these kinds of things that he gets nominated for all of them.
[log in to unmask] says:
human right - ha - meant Human Rights. What does the "Right" know about that
[log in to unmask] says:
Well, he didn't write and say no, so I think Carlos and Raul should be our suggestions for the NCUC
Milton says:
ok,good so now we have to prepare the "winnowed" list and send it to Horacio, Valerie and Thierry.
[log in to unmask] says:
so we've got...
[log in to unmask] says:
Africa: olivier and adiel
[log in to unmask] says:
Asia: paul wilson and chun
[log in to unmask] says:
Europe: vittorio and Marco
[log in to unmask] says:
karen as global
[log in to unmask] says:
LAC: carlos and raul
[log in to unmask] says:
North America: karl and susan
[log in to unmask] says:
look right?
Milton says:
yes, but unconfirmed by the needed plurality of EC.
[log in to unmask] says:
correct... but this is what we're sending to them
[log in to unmask] says:
i know you wrote that just for Adam
Milton says:
naw.....
Milton says:
[log in to unmask] says:
:-#:-*:-#:-*
Milton says:
:-#:-*:-#:-* that's how your emoticons look
[log in to unmask] says:
Alright. Will you prepare it? And can you save this conversation history since you weren't kicked off three times
Milton says:
yes, I will save the log, and send a list via the ecncuc list to the three
[log in to unmask] says:
I see yours as I sent them - do they look funny?
Milton says:
:-#:-*:-#:-* -- does that look funny to you?
[log in to unmask] says:
funny ha ha, not funny odd though.
Milton says:
Although we will use the ecncuc list that goes to all, would you like to take responsibility for contacting one ro two of the three if that doesn't work?
[log in to unmask] says:
meaning, if they don't respond on the list? Sure
Milton says:
yes. ok? are we done?
[log in to unmask] says:
we're done. you need to send me an e-mail but I'll remind you in a bit
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