Well said.

----- Original Message -----
From: "Robin Gross" <[log in to unmask]>
To: [log in to unmask]
Sent: Friday, June 24, 2016 6:50:12 PM
Subject: Re: Harassment and Helsinki


While this lone effort to save the women may have been well-intentioned, I am also concerned that it will end up being counter productive. Let’s not become defensive about concerns, but rather address them in more of a dialogue among the impacted parties. Of course none of us are in favor of harassment, but I also don’t think we need to go off on a one man campaign. Let’s try to work productively together with guidance from the impacted parties leading the effort on what changes are needed and how best to handle situations when they arise. 


Thanks, 
Robin 




On Jun 24, 2016, at 9:34 AM, Tatiana Tropina < [log in to unmask] > wrote: 



Hi all, 
I fully support Milton's email. Demanding strong action has to come together with strong and thorough safeguards. I don't want to be in the atmosphere of fear and intimidation. Vague definitions, unclear rules and off the cuff solutions are as dangerous as the problem itself. 
Best 
Tatiana 
On 24 Jun 2016 18:15, "Edward Morris" < [log in to unmask] > wrote: 



Milton, 

I'm not going to get involved in juvenile name calling and personal attacks. All quotes in may post are accurate and taken from the Council list. As for your accusation of "grandstanding" and chest beating... 

I've spent hours on the telephone with officials and organisations in Finland. I have learned law, procedure and established personal contacts that will enable me to help those who feel harmed and aggrieved. If you want to call that grandstanding go ahead. I call it getting off my rear end and solving a problem I see and have experienced. 

We are not going to have as strong an NCSG team in Helsinki that we would otherwise have had because there are women who will no longer come to these meetings. That bothers me. I'm told the tech community is always sexist, as if that is an excuse. Well, you've been here for years Milton and talking to women who have been here a long time as well they tell me there have always been problems of this nature. I have no way of knowing whether they are telling me the truth or not. 

What I do know is what I've experienced: the most paternalistic sexist environment I have encountered anywhere in my professional life. I look forward to working with you and others to create policy to fix this. It should have been done years ago by those who have been there all these years. 

In the interim, I asm going to ensure that those who feel aggrieved are able to access the resources that our host countries have established to assist them. One of the advantage predators have is the victims at meetings like ICANN are often in a foreign country and don't know where to turn. It's a real problem, one I've witnessed first hand at ICANN meetings in Singapore and Morocco. I'm doing everything I can to take away this predator advantage and ensure that ALL conference attendees have access to the resources set up to help them by the state and civil society in the Republic of Finland. Each attendee is deserved to feel safe in his or her body and to be treated respectfully and professionally. 

I'm sorry you don't seem to approve of my actions, Milton. Not much I can do about that. I've seen too many tears and heard too many stories. If I can help one person while ICANN is getting it's act together it will be worth the condemnation of the masses. 

Respectfully, 

Ed Morris 





From : "Mueller, Milton L" < [log in to unmask] > 
Sent : Friday, June 24, 2016 3:56 PM 
To : [log in to unmask] 
Subject : Re: Harassment and Helsinki 



Ed 






one of your Councilors who stated “it is my view that we need a privacy policy more than a harassment policy “. I could not disagree more strongly with that statement. 



MM: That does not strike me as an accurate statement. My understanding is that there were concerns about how personal information about accusations is handled. According to an approved NCUC statement, we need to be as concerned about the rights of the falsely accused as we are about the victim of SH, because of course we all know, or should know, that the boundaries are not always clear and that people can manipulate or misuse SH charges just as SH abusers can manipulate others in a conference setting. 



MM: I’d like to hear more about those details, and less about how strongly you are against SH, Ed. Last time I looked there were no defenders or SH on this list. We need to work together on this issue and not grandstand – one of the most poisonous things about these kinds of issues is that it allows people to beat their chests and proclaim how much they are against “bad things” (sexual harassment, terrorism, child porn, you name it) while obscuring the details about what rights people have and what procedures are justified in response. 



(I am reminded of the Republican primary debates, where the candidates vied with each other to say how much they were against ISIS, and how “strong” should be the measures we take against it, but seem to have overlooked any realistic cause-effect relationship between the actions proposed and the factors that have given rise to ISIS in the region – including the Iraq war they all supported. But I digress…)