Thanks Mary,
I'd support this individually, and like the approach of a joint
NCUC/NPOC comment (or later endorsement, depending on timing).

--Wendy

On 11/17/2012 11:53 AM, Maria Farrell wrote:
> Does it make sense, then, to submit the piece as a joint ncuc/npoc comment,
> and not an ncsg one?
> 
> I'd support that, as an ncuc member.
> 
> On 17 November 2012 15:39, Alain Berranger <[log in to unmask]>wrote:
> 
>> Hi Mary,
>>
>> Thanks a lot for an excellent statement.
>> On a personal basis, I agree with much of the spirit of your proposed
>> comment and take the opportunity to run it by NPOC-voice to solicit an NPOC
>> wide view. However, as Avri points out, the NCSG-EC has to decide on a
>> recommendation to the Board as per the timeline Robin indicated. So, it
>> seems inappropriate for NCSG-EC to make a public comment at this early
>> stage such as the one you suggest or any other one for that matter, as it
>> would essentially have the effect of making a decision regarding the
>> application during the public comment period.
>>
>> There are 2 points I would like to raise:
>>
>> 1) telecentres for social purposes, usually located in schools, clinics,
>> community centers, remote villages, etc... - for instance see
>> http://www.telecentre.org/ for a look inside the Telecentre movement -
>> are non-commercial public access Internet points (PIAPs) while cybercafés
>> are essentially commercial, even if located in very poor and under serviced
>> areas, because they are mostly entrepreneurial in their organization, with
>> a livelihood or profit making purpose. The former could be housed in NCSG
>> (as Members) while the latter could be welcomed into CSG.
>> 2) we should distinguish between the proponent and it's adequacy to be the
>> leader of the creation of a new constituency and the need for a new
>> constituency. If it is confirmed that there is a need for some kind of a
>> new constituency, then NCSG-EC has to also decide on it's recommendation
>> regarding if  the proponent is likely to adequately lead the creation of
>> that new constituency.
>>
>> I hope this helps! Alain
>>
>>
>> On Saturday, November 17, 2012, wrote:
>>
>>>  Hello everyone,
>>>
>>>  Since today is the last day for public comment on the proposed new
>>> cybercafe constituency and nothing has been sent in, I took the liberty of
>>> composing something brief that I hope members can approve. I've done so as
>>> many members have expressed firm opinions about this issue, and it is
>>> important that NCSG sends in a comment, especially since the group is
>>> applying to join NCSG.
>>>
>>>  The proposed comment follow; if there is no objection by the end of the
>>> day, I propose to file it on behalf of NCSG. Thanks everyone!
>>>
>>>  "The Non-Commercial Stakeholder Group (NCSG) is pleased to see that
>>> there is increased interest from developing regions in ICANN participation.
>>> Having long been the most-diverse (geographically and ethnically)
>>> stakeholder group within not just the GNSO but ICANN as well, we have
>>> always made outreach, accessibility and engagement part of our mission and
>>> have as a result welcomed numerous new individual and organizational
>>> members from across the globe into our membership, including through the
>>> GNSO's newest constituency, the Not for Profit Operational Concerns (NPOC)
>>> constituency.
>>>
>>>  There is consensus in the NCSG - from both NPOC and Non-Commerciaul
>>> Users Constituency (NCUC) members - that the new CCAOI application for
>>> constituency status belongs not in the NCSG but in the Commercial
>>> Stakeholders Group (CSG). We have carefully reviewed all the documents and
>>> information provided in the CCAOI's application, and believe that it is a
>>> commercial organization whose operations do not fit within NCSG's formal
>>> charter or objectives.
>>>
>>>  The CCAOI's stated reason for applying to join NCSG is that it is a
>>> non-profit organization which among its activities promotes public interest
>>> goals of education and access. While non-profit organizations are members
>>> of NCSG's NPOC constituency, NPOC members must first and continue to be
>>> NCSG members as well, i.e., remain resolutely non-commercial in their
>>> focus. The fact that individual cybercafes within the wider CCAOI
>>> organization may not charge fees to their users does not by itself make
>>> either these cybercafes or the CCAOI itself a non-commercial organization.
>>> Rather, we note from its application that its members include also
>>> "e-commerce service providers", "Internet solution providers" and
>>> entrepreneurs, and its plans include the use of a mobile payment platform
>>> to alleviate the problem of low credit card usage and cash safety.
>>>
>>>  We therefore believe that the proper place within the current GNSO
>>> framework for CCAOI is the CSG. The fact that the CSG's rigid constituency
>>> structures may mean that CCAOI could potentially belong to either the
>>> Internet Service Providers (ISP) constituency or the Business Constituency
>>> (BC), or that either of these groups may need to modify its charter to
>>> allow a commercial organization of CCAOI's nature to apply, is not NCSG'
>>> concern or issue. Similarly, if the GNSO's own structure requires change in
>>> order to accommodate a diverse organization such as CCAOI, it is not a
>>> solution to just put them in the NCSG simply because we are the most
>>> flexible and open GNSO stakeholder group. These limitations are problems
>>> that are neither the fault of CCAOI or NCSG, and should if necessary be
>>> addressed by the GNSO as a whole and perhaps also the ICANN Board's own
>>> Structural Improvements Committee (SIC), who had worked with the fledgling
>>> NCSG to develop a charter that reflected non-commercial values and
>>> interests.
>>>
>>>  Should this not be feasible, NCSG believes that those members and
>>> elements of CCAOI that are purely non-commercial could individually join
>>> NCSG. As a representative organization that has clearly commercial sources
>>> of funding and for-profit members, however, CCAOI as it is currently
>>> constituted clearly does not belong within NCSG.
>>>
>>>  Respectfully submitted,
>>>
>>> The Non-Commercial Stakeholder Group"
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> Mary W S Wong
>>> Professor of Law
>>> Director, Franklin Pierce Center for IP
>>> Chair, Graduate IP Programs
>>> UNIVERSITY OF NEW HAMPSHIRE SCHOOL OF LAW
>>> Two White Street
>>> Concord, NH 03301
>>> USA
>>> Email: [log in to unmask]
>>> Phone: 1-603-513-5143
>>> Webpage: http://www.law.unh.edu/marywong/index.php
>>> Selected writings available on the Social Science Research Network (SSRN)
>>> at: http://ssrn.com/author=437584
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>
>> --
>> Alain Berranger, B.Eng, MBA
>> Member, Board of Directors, CECI, http://www.ceci.ca<http://www.ceci.ca/en/about-ceci/team/board-of-directors/>
>> Executive-in-residence, Schulich School of Business, www.schulich.yorku.ca
>> Treasurer, Global Knowledge Partnership Foundation, www.gkpfoundation.org
>> NA representative, Chasquinet Foundation, www.chasquinet.org
>> Chair, NPOC, NCSG, ICANN, http://npoc.org/
>> O:+1 514 484 7824; M:+1 514 704 7824
>> Skype: alain.berranger
>>
>>
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-- 
Wendy Seltzer -- [log in to unmask] +1 617.863.0613
Fellow, Berkman Center for Internet & Society at Harvard University
Visiting Fellow, Yale Law School Information Society Project
http://wendy.seltzer.org/
https://www.chillingeffects.org/
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