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PLASMACHEM-L  September 2011

PLASMACHEM-L September 2011

Subject:

Re: Treatment for HF exposure

From:

Michael M Cheatham <[log in to unmask]>

Reply-To:

PLASMACHEM-L: Analytical Chem.(ICP's, DCP's, MIP's).

Date:

Wed, 21 Sep 2011 19:29:00 -0400

Content-Type:

text/plain

Parts/Attachments:

Parts/Attachments

text/plain (171 lines)

The reason I have been asking the warm vs cold question is that our
building has a fairly new emergency shower/eyewash system installed
throughout in any room with a fume hood.  It is installed as a warm (room
temp) system that is constantly flowing so that stagnant water never
builds up in the system and it constantly passes a UV light source to kill
biologicals.

Because of the large quantities of HF used in our geochem labs I have
wanted to know that answer ahead of time and make a change to the units in
those particular labs BEFORE we have to use them.  As I already mentioned
we have used our shower/eye wash systems with the warm water.  It is not a
question of using the shower, it is a question of what is best for the
person that may be in need.

This is all part of being prepared ahead of time and goes right along with
knowing which hospital in Syracuse to go to as well as that hospital
knowing what we do work with HF.  This is part of Risk Management for us.
Risk elimination is not an option for us.  We can't dissolve Zircon in any
other way AND keep the blank as low as possible at the same time.  At this
point in time, it is the blank that drives the research.  We have really
very very very low Pb blanks and are still pushing even lower.  It is the
name of the game in Geochronology these days.

Mike
********************************************************************
Michael M. Cheatham
321 Heroy Geology Laboratory                         Phone (315)-443-1261
Syracuse University                                     Fax
(315)-443-3363
Syracuse, NY 13244-1070

email:[log in to unmask]
http://earthsciences.syr.edu
http://www.facebook.com/EarthSciencesSU

owner of PLASMACHEM-L: http://listserv.syr.edu/archives/plasmachem-l.html
owner of XRF-L: http://listserv.syr.edu/archives/xrf-l.html
owner of TIMS-L: http://listserv.syr.edu/archives/tims-l.html

********************************************************************




On 9/21/11 5:32 PM, "Chris Sparks" <[log in to unmask]> wrote:

>Another data point on the cold vs. warm.  Our safety officer's thoughts
>attached:
>
>-------
>cold or warm? Well, it's more of what's handy. Normal eye wash/showers
>are not heated, so you rinse with what is available - cold water. That's
>your choice cold and...cold. I have never seen a reference to cold vs.
>warm. 
>And, considering the necessity to get the surface cleaned as fast as you
>can, don't waste time fretting about one or the other.
>The industry has long used a 5 minute rinse for HF (vs. 25 for everything
>else) to remove the surface contaminants and then right to massaging in
>calcium gluconate.
>------
>
>Regards,
>Chris
>
>Chris Sparks, Ph.D.
>Senior Member Technical Staff
>SVTC Technologies, Inc.
>(512) 356-2129
>analytical.svtc.com
>
>
>
>
>-----Original Message-----
>From: PLASMACHEM-L: Analytical Chem.(ICP's, DCP's, MIP's).
>[mailto:[log in to unmask]] On Behalf Of Michael M Cheatham
>Sent: Tuesday, September 20, 2011 2:29 PM
>To: [log in to unmask]
>Subject: Treatment for HF exposure
>
>I've been following this discussion on HF exposure with interest.  This
>isn't the first time it has come up on this list, though this time the
>thread has longer legs.
>
>I've worked with HF for more than 30 yrs.  I've never been exposed.  I'm
>a geochemist.  I've used HF to dissolve silicate rocks throughout that
>time period.  In all the labs I've worked in we have always dealt with
>full strength HF.  Considering the volumes we use, we can't afford
>Optima/Sea Star/Ultrex grades.  We distill our own.  As such we handle
>full strength in large quantities.  It can be done safely.  If you are
>nervous about handling HF (or any chemical for that matter) then don't
>handle it!  You are more prone to having an accident if you are nervous.
>Be confident and be careful.
>
>Working in an academic environment we keep MSDS binders in every room
>where a chemical is used - even dry erase markers!  We have a safety
>pamphlet on HF in the labs in my department that use HF.  Much of what
>has been discussed in this recent HF discussion can be found in these
>pamphlets.  These pamphlets are not manufacturers MSDS's, instead they
>are provided by SU's Environmental Health Office.
>
>I've read them.  I've read much of what is on the internet.  I have the
>3rd edition of the CRC Handbook of Laboratory Safety at home.  I have the
>4th edition in my office.  Our Earth Sciences Library has the 5th edition
>on the shelf.
>
>The thing that amazes me is that between the 3rd and 5th edition of the
>CRC the treatment of HF exposure has not remained consistent.  It hasn't
>necessarily evolved.  Benzalkonium chloride (Trademark names of Zephiran
>and Hyamine 1622) was the rage in the CRC 3rd edition.  I can't find it
>mentioned in the 4th edition.  It is back to some extent in the 5th
>edition.  I mention this only to point out that what we may consider to
>be authoritative sources can't always be trusted.
>
>Joe Cruse's post just now mentions Dr. Trevino cautioning no more than a
>5 minute water flush.  The 5th edition of the CRC says nothing less than
>25 minutes!
>
>As for seeking advice from a health professional make sure they are
>experts on treating HF exposures.  Johan Schijf's story about the
>confusion between hydrochloric acid and hydrofluoric acid by EMS as well
>as Emergency room personnel is very real.  There are five major hospitals
>in the Syracuse area as well as SU's own medical center.  We have had
>faculty and grad students experience exposures to HF - always at full
>strength but in varying amounts.  We have Ca Gluconate everywhere in the
>labs.  We have emergency showers and eye wash stations in our labs and we
>have used them.  When we do get an exposure we send people to only one of
>the hospitals in the area - Upstate Medical Center.  Why?  Because they
>are the only facility in the area with the expertise to treat the
>exposures.  Here is the important point - we know what they are capable
>of and they know that Earth Sciences at SU uses lots of HF.  That
>foreknowledge is critical to timely and proper treatment.  If your lab
>uses HF talk to the hospitals/medical centers in your area.  See if they
>know how to treat an HF exposure - before you need their service!
>
>Even after all of the reading I've done on HF exposure treatment and
>countless conversations with our EHO office they is one question that I
>have that remains unanswered...in the event of skin exposure to HF do you
>flush with warm water or cold water?  Do you want the pores to stay open,
>or do you want them to close?  Might anyone have the definitive answer?
>
>Cheers
>Mike
>
>********************************************************************
>Michael M. Cheatham
>321 Heroy Geology Laboratory                         Phone (315)-443-1261
>Syracuse University                                     Fax
>(315)-443-3363
>Syracuse, NY 13244-1070
>
>email:[log in to unmask]
>http://earthsciences.syr.edu
>http://www.facebook.com/EarthSciencesSU
>
>owner of PLASMACHEM-L: http://listserv.syr.edu/archives/plasmachem-l.html
>owner of XRF-L: http://listserv.syr.edu/archives/xrf-l.html
>owner of TIMS-L: http://listserv.syr.edu/archives/tims-l.html
>
>********************************************************************
>
>==========================================================================
>====
>The content of this message is SVTC Technologies Confidential. This
>message may contain confidential, proprietary or legally privileged
>information. It is for the use of the named recipient only, and access by
>anyone else is unauthorized. If you have received this message in error,
>please reply to that effect and delete this message.
>==========================================================================
>====

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