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PLASMACHEM-L  March 2017

PLASMACHEM-L March 2017

Subject:

Re: recertifying calibration standards?

From:

"Pappas, Richard Steve (CDC/ONDIEH/NCEH)" <[log in to unmask]>

Reply-To:

PLASMACHEM-L: Analytical Chem.(ICP's, DCP's, MIP's).

Date:

Fri, 3 Mar 2017 16:02:50 +0000

Content-Type:

text/plain

Parts/Attachments:

Parts/Attachments

text/plain (134 lines)

You must have been influenced in early life by Popeye the Sailor Man, like I was. People don't believe that I am real either. I look 10 years older than my age. (Life has been hard. Don't get me started. I don't mind telling you that I have worked hard for a living, not for myself, all for my family, none for me). 

R. Steven Pappas, Ph.D.
Team Lead, Tobacco Inorganics Group
Centers for Disease Control & Prevention
4770 Buford Highway, NE
M.S. F44, Building 110
Atlanta, GA 30341-3717, USA

-----Original Message-----
From: PLASMACHEM-L: Analytical Chem.(ICP's, DCP's, MIP's). [mailto:[log in to unmask]] On Behalf Of John M McArthur
Sent: Friday, March 03, 2017 10:57 AM
To: [log in to unmask]
Subject: Re: recertifying calibration standards?

Hey, I'm real! And I'm who I say I am.

John
***********************************************************************
[This sender failed our fraud detection checks and may not be who they appear to be. Learn about spoofing at http://aka.ms/LearnAboutSpoofing]

Some bottle are pretty airtight - last week we tested an As standard
(2011 vintage) against one bought in 2014 and one freshly made from sodium arsenate.
If the differences were real, they were no more than 1%.

A good way to check on whether a standard is going off is to weight it before and after every time it is used from the time you bought it (obviously works for samples, too).
Maybe you could 'recertify' that way - it would be pretty accurate.

John McArthur.

Professor of Geochemistry
Earth Sciences
University College London
Gower Street
London WC1E 6BT

phone     +44 (0)20 7679 2376

On 03/03/2017 15:12, Pappas, Richard Steve (CDC/ONDIEH/NCEH) wrote:
> I understood. My comments meant that you don't want to buy a bunch of newstandards to recertify the old ones, because, what is the point?
> I like to make our own mixes because our analytes are dramatically different concentration ranges in the same matrix, as well as in different matrices.
> We cannot report numbers below the lowest standard, so a multielement standard will not be acceptable for our purposes.
> You might want to check with some vendors and see if they sell multielement standards that are ISO guide 34/17025 certified if you are just wanting to recertify your present ones. The multielement mixes are higher than single element solutions obviously, but maybe they will save some money:
>
> For example, you may see this kind of statement on the side of the page where the 68 standard mix is described:
> ISO/IEC 17025:2005 and ISO Guide 34:2009 or Traceable to NIST:
>
> HPS ICP-MS-68A Multielement standards
> Inorganic Ventures 65 to 71 element Calibration Standard (group) Spex 
> Calibration Standard (various) Elemental Scientific ICP-MS Calibration 
> Standard 3, Solution A SCP Multielement standards Others?
>
> R. Steven Pappas, Ph.D.
> Team Lead, Tobacco Inorganics Group
> Centers for Disease Control & Prevention
> 4770 Buford Highway, NE
> M.S. F44, Building 110
> Atlanta, GA 30341-3717, USA
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: PLASMACHEM-L: Analytical Chem.(ICP's, DCP's, MIP's). 
> [mailto:[log in to unmask]] On Behalf Of Taylor, Robert
> Sent: Friday, March 03, 2017 9:45 AM
> To: [log in to unmask]
> Subject: Re: recertifying calibration standards?
>
> I have no problem running a "new" standard against the old ones, but whatI'd like to do is have the "new" standard be a multielement standard, either a NIST "metals in water" or a commercial Multielement standard that is traceable to NIST.  Assuming the "old" standards still showed their nominal values, I'd like to "recertify" them for an additional time period.  This is done for balance weights and thermometers.  I'd like to do it for single element standards so that I don't have to buy an entire new set every year. I have about 50 single element standards on the shelf and that's a couplethousand dollars I'd prefer not to have to spend every year for standards that (presumably) have not changed.
> Bob Taylor
>
> Robert J. Taylor
> Trace Element Research Laboratory
> Department of Veterinary Integrative Biosciences College of Veterinary 
> Medicine Texas A&M University College Station, TX 77843
>
> tel: 979-845-1568
> fax: 979-847-8981
>
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: PLASMACHEM-L: Analytical Chem.(ICP's, DCP's, MIP's). 
> [mailto:[log in to unmask]] On Behalf Of Pappas, Richard 
> Steve (CDC/ONDIEH/NCEH)
> Sent: Friday, March 03, 2017 8:27 AM
> To: [log in to unmask]
> Subject: Re: recertifying calibration standards?
>
> I don't know if it is just our lab requirements, or ISO 17025, but whenever we acquire new standards, we have to run them versus the old ones to verify.
> But that is exactly what you don't want to do.
> If there is any difference, we have to perform triplicate runs with SRMs and/or standards from another source to establish accuracy of the new standards. Any QC spikes have to be from a different source than the calibrationstandards anyway.
> I agree that it is "tail wagging the dog," but such is life under ISO (orour lab, whichever is the case).
>
> R. Steven Pappas, Ph.D.
> Team Lead, Tobacco Inorganics Group
> Centers for Disease Control & Prevention
> 4770 Buford Highway, NE
> M.S. F44, Building 110
> Atlanta, GA 30341-3717, USA
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: PLASMACHEM-L: Analytical Chem.(ICP's, DCP's, MIP's). 
> [mailto:[log in to unmask]] On Behalf Of Taylor, Robert
> Sent: Thursday, March 02, 2017 3:00 PM
> To: [log in to unmask]
> Subject: recertifying calibration standards?
>
> Hello, plasmachem.
>
> I've searched the archives for an answer to my question and not having seen anything that seems to answer it, I'll now post it.
>
> Along with multielement standards, we have MANY single element standards that are used to prepare multielement calibration standards for our ICP work.  Can anyone recommend a reference that provides for recertifying such standards against a "certified" standard (such as one of the NIST "many elements in water" standards) in order to avoid buying a whole (or close to whole) periodic table of single element standards every year?  I understand theneed to follow whatever we put into a "standards" SOP, but it would be nice to have a basis for whatever process we follow.
>
> Thanks.
>
> Bob Taylor
>
> Robert J. Taylor
> Trace Element Research Laboratory
> Department of Veterinary Integrative Biosciences College of Veterinary 
> Medicine Texas A&M University College Station, TX 77843
>
> tel: 979-845-1568
> fax: 979-847-8981
>
> Shipping:
> Texas A&M University
> Veterinary Integrative Biosciences
> R. Taylor
> 664 Raymond Stotzer Pkwy.
> VICI 126, Bldg. #1814
> 4458 TAMU
> College Station, TX 77843-4458

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