+1 Any org merely structured, itself, as an NPO that nevertheless has a formally stated mission in its own articles of incorporation to serve the interests of a for-profit/commercial "secondary" constituency does not serve the interests of a non-commercial constituency. Dan -- Any opinions expressed in this message are those of the author alone and do not necessarily reflect any position of the author's employer. At 5:53 PM -0800 2/11/11, Robin Gross wrote: >I strongly object to Debbie and Amber's request that NCSG open up its >membership to commercial trade associations. > >NCSG is the *only* place at ICANN that is supposed to be free from >commercial influence so other important goals can be pursued. All of the >other 5 constituencies in the GNSO are commercial in nature. And many in >At-Large are commercially oriented, as "noncommercial" is not part of its >mission. But NCSG is the only place that is reserved specifically for >non-commercial interests and it is important to keep this space free from >commercial concerns, which permeate in every other nook and cranny of >ICANN. ICANN's model was designed to allow a specific space for only >noncommercial interests to be promoted as a way of advancing the health >and development of the Internet. Human rights can never depend upon >commercial interests alone to succeed, as one example of "other" goals >besides commercial ones ICANN might want to consider. Without a barrier >of some kind between the two worlds, noncommercial interests will be >over-run by the well-financed commercial interests at ICANN. Of course >commercial interests have a place in policy development, but ICANN must >leave a single solitary space that cannot be over-run by commercial >interests if it wants to claim it represents "the global public interest". > >If we opened up NCSG to commercial trade organizations, groups like the >Recording Industry Association of America (RIAA) or the International >Federation of the Phonographic Industry (IFPI) would join. I bet Big >Pharma trade associations would be among the first to sign-up to NCSG >(since their interests are so woefully under-represented at ICANN between >the IPC and the BC). > >No, I think we have to draw a line at some point -- and it is with >commercial trade associations. They don't belong in NCSG. They have a >legitimate place in policy development, but it isn't going to be in the >non-commercials' name. > >Best, >Robin > > >Attachment converted: Macintosh HD:NCSG Charter-2011-02#21F217.doc >(WDBN/«IC») (0021F217) > > >On Feb 11, 2011, at 3:02 PM, Avri Doria wrote: > >> Hi, >> >> Thanks for the edit pass. >> >> On 'civility' I expect we can come to any agreement. As you said, it >>has such a broad meaning. >> >> I took a quick look at the other comments, and some of your recommended >>changes seem like they would be substantive changes to the charter that >>was approved by a vote in the NCSG. I have been very careful to not make >>substantive changes during this process. I will read it more carefully >>this weekend. I would think that I would need to have consensus in the >>EC for making any substantive changes on behalf of the NCSG. I would >>like to see where the discussion goes on your proposals. >> >> But of course I will forward them to the SIC and Staff, with any >>comments that are generated on these lists. And I would expect you to >>offer them as a comments during the comment period. >> >> Best Regards, >> a. >> >> >> On 11 Feb 2011, at 14:31, Amber Sterling wrote: >> >>> Hi, >>> >>> Debbie and I reviewed the proposed NCSG charter together and our >>> edits/comments are attached. Please let me know if you have any >>> questions. >>> >>> Kind regards, >>> Amber >>> >>> Amber Sterling >>> Senior Intellectual Property Specialist >>> Association of American Medical Colleges >>> >>> >>> -----Original Message----- >>> From: Avri Doria [mailto:[log in to unmask]] >>> Sent: Sunday, February 06, 2011 3:44 PM >>> To: NCSG EC; NCSG Policy Committee >>> Subject: [ncsg-ec] my review of the staff's edit to our SG charter. >>> >>> Hi, >>> >>> Here is a summary of my comments. I intend to send this to Sam Monday >>> morning. >>> >>> In some cases these comments may not make sense without Sam's comment in >>> the text. I guess sometimes they might not makes sense in any case. >>> >>> These comments can also be found in the document itself. >>> >>> >>> Comments: >>> >>> Re 1.2.2 (c) Inclusion of civility >>> >>> If necessary I am sure we will include the word 'civility'. Many of the >>> NCSG members, especially those in NCUC, see this particular requirement >>> for civility as being problematic in that it requires a value judgment >>> close to political correctness in order to make a judgment of what is >>> civil and what is not. Especially in a multi-cultural organization >>> often one cultures directness is another cultures incivility. We also >>> believe that this criteria has been used improperly by the Ombudsman and >>> others in ICANN's past to limit freedom of expression. >>> >>> >>> Re 2.2.3 - definition of large and small organization >>> >>> Personally I prefer the original NCSG definition and recommend that the >>> Constituency process includes this instead. the problem with the >>> criterion here is that certain organization will be excluded from >>> membership based on not being large enough to be small. >>> >>> >>> a. Organizations that have more than 50 employees, or are membership >>> organizations with more than 500 individual members, shall be classified >>> as "large organizations". >>> >>> b. Organizations that are composed of 10 or more organizational members >>> that qualify as "large" under criterion (a.) above shall be classified >>> as "large organizations". >>> >>> c. Organizations that do not qualify as large organizations shall be >>> classified as "small organizations". >>> >>> >>> 2.2.8 Inactive Membership >>> >>> While it is reasonable to include a sentence to indicate that members >>> can resign, i don't think we need to have names on the inactive list >>> times out. >>> >>> Also, at this point we do not have dues. We are considering the >>> introduction of voluntary contributions i the future, but at this point >>> membership in the NCSG is like membership in ISOC, no payment necessary. >>> >>> >>> 2.2.10 Sam had a question on outreach and coordination between >>> constituency Outreach and SG outreach. recommended adding: >>> >>> Membership outreach will be coordinated with Constituency outreach >>> efforts and any outreach efforts established by the GNSO or ICANN. >>> >>> 2.4.2.1 Requirements for appeal and the question of whether there should >>> be weighted notion of bringing the case for consideration. >>> >>> We thought about this and decided that while the voting threshold >>> includes the proportionality, the raising of the issue did not need to. >>> >>> 2.4.3 Chair election - changed the line to read: >>> >>> A Chair can serve, at maximum, 2 full one year terms[SE1] consecutively. >>> There must be at least one intervening term before a member can be >>> elected again as chair;[AD2] >>> >>> [SE1]For consideration: Has there been discussion about when the terms >>> would begin/end? That could be specified in here, but not required. >>> >>> [AD2]not really. Basically that gets defined on an election by >>> election basis. I was criticized once for making the charter too long >>> by getting too much into detail. This sort of thing does not seem to >>> really need codification, especially since creating a generic rule can >>> get confusing. On the other hand, I think there was an ambiguity about >>> whether a chair could serve again in the future, so I added >>> clarification. >>> >>> >>> -- >>> >>> Anyone have something else to add? >>> >>> Assuming the constituency process is approved, I think the changes Sam >>> made were mostly ok. None of my comments is really big, except for >>> perhaps the one about big and small organizations that create an empty >>> spot for many of our small organization that are not big enough to be >>> small under the staff' definition. >>> >>> thanks >>> >>> a. >>> >>> <NCSG Charter-2011-02-11_Amber-Debbie.doc> >>> ---- >>> Everything about this list: http://info.n4c.eu/sympa/info/ncsg-ec >> >> >> ---- >> Everything about this list: http://info.n4c.eu/sympa/info/ncsg-policy > > > > >IP JUSTICE >Robin Gross, Executive Director >1192 Haight Street, San Francisco, CA 94117 USA >p: +1-415-553-6261 f: +1-415-462-6451 >w: http://www.ipjustice.org e: [log in to unmask]