The statement is well done, I agree wholeheartedly that CCAOI should be in CSG or should work with the ISP constituency to amend so they might be admitted there. -Mike On Sat, Nov 17, 2012 at 3:59 PM, Dan Krimm <[log in to unmask]> wrote: > +1 -- add my name, and I also support a joint constituency statement. > > And I do think Alain's distinction between commercial cybercafe's and > non-commercial PIAPs is a useful point to clarify "members and elements of > CCAOI that are purely non-commercial" -- i.e., possibly add "for example, > Telecentres operating as non-commercial Public Internet Access Points"). > > Echoing the thanks for putting this together. > > Dan > > > -- > Any opinions expressed in this message are those of the author alone and do > not necessarily reflect any position of the author's employer. > > > > At 2:35 PM -0500 11/17/12, Wendy Seltzer wrote: > >Thanks Mary, > >I'd support this individually, and like the approach of a joint > >NCUC/NPOC comment (or later endorsement, depending on timing). > > > >--Wendy > > > >On 11/17/2012 11:53 AM, Maria Farrell wrote: > >> Does it make sense, then, to submit the piece as a joint ncuc/npoc > comment, > >> and not an ncsg one? > >> > >> I'd support that, as an ncuc member. > >> > >> On 17 November 2012 15:39, Alain Berranger <[log in to unmask] > >wrote: > >> > >>> Hi Mary, > >>> > >>> Thanks a lot for an excellent statement. > >>> On a personal basis, I agree with much of the spirit of your proposed > >>> comment and take the opportunity to run it by NPOC-voice to solicit an > NPOC > >>> wide view. However, as Avri points out, the NCSG-EC has to decide on a > >>> recommendation to the Board as per the timeline Robin indicated. So, it > >>> seems inappropriate for NCSG-EC to make a public comment at this early > >>> stage such as the one you suggest or any other one for that matter, as > it > >>> would essentially have the effect of making a decision regarding the > >>> application during the public comment period. > >>> > >>> There are 2 points I would like to raise: > >>> > >>> 1) telecentres for social purposes, usually located in schools, > clinics, > >>> community centers, remote villages, etc... - for instance see > >>> http://www.telecentre.org/ for a look inside the Telecentre movement - > >>> are non-commercial public access Internet points (PIAPs) while > cybercafés > >>> are essentially commercial, even if located in very poor and under > serviced > >>> areas, because they are mostly entrepreneurial in their organization, > with > >>> a livelihood or profit making purpose. The former could be housed in > NCSG > >>> (as Members) while the latter could be welcomed into CSG. > >>> 2) we should distinguish between the proponent and it's adequacy to be > the > >>> leader of the creation of a new constituency and the need for a new > >>> constituency. If it is confirmed that there is a need for some kind of > a > >>> new constituency, then NCSG-EC has to also decide on it's > recommendation > >>> regarding if the proponent is likely to adequately lead the creation > of > >>> that new constituency. > >>> > >>> I hope this helps! Alain > >>> > >>> > >>> On Saturday, November 17, 2012, wrote: > >>> > >>>> Hello everyone, > >>>> > >>>> Since today is the last day for public comment on the proposed new > >>>> cybercafe constituency and nothing has been sent in, I took the > liberty of > >>>> composing something brief that I hope members can approve. I've done > so as > >>>> many members have expressed firm opinions about this issue, and it is > >>>> important that NCSG sends in a comment, especially since the group is > >>>> applying to join NCSG. > >>>> > >>>> The proposed comment follow; if there is no objection by the end of > the > >>>> day, I propose to file it on behalf of NCSG. Thanks everyone! > >>>> > >>>> "The Non-Commercial Stakeholder Group (NCSG) is pleased to see that > >>>> there is increased interest from developing regions in ICANN > >>>>participation. > >>>> Having long been the most-diverse (geographically and ethnically) > >>>> stakeholder group within not just the GNSO but ICANN as well, we have > >>>> always made outreach, accessibility and engagement part of our > mission and > >>>> have as a result welcomed numerous new individual and organizational > >>>> members from across the globe into our membership, including through > the > >>>> GNSO's newest constituency, the Not for Profit Operational Concerns > (NPOC) > >>>> constituency. > >>>> > >>>> There is consensus in the NCSG - from both NPOC and Non-Commerciaul > >>>> Users Constituency (NCUC) members - that the new CCAOI application for > >>>> constituency status belongs not in the NCSG but in the Commercial > >>>> Stakeholders Group (CSG). We have carefully reviewed all the > documents and > >>>> information provided in the CCAOI's application, and believe that it > is a > >>>> commercial organization whose operations do not fit within NCSG's > formal > >>>> charter or objectives. > >>>> > >>>> The CCAOI's stated reason for applying to join NCSG is that it is a > >>>> non-profit organization which among its activities promotes public > >>>>interest > >>>> goals of education and access. While non-profit organizations are > members > >>>> of NCSG's NPOC constituency, NPOC members must first and continue to > be > >>>> NCSG members as well, i.e., remain resolutely non-commercial in their > >>>> focus. The fact that individual cybercafes within the wider CCAOI > >>>> organization may not charge fees to their users does not by itself > make > >>>> either these cybercafes or the CCAOI itself a non-commercial > organization. > >>>> Rather, we note from its application that its members include also > >>>> "e-commerce service providers", "Internet solution providers" and > >>>> entrepreneurs, and its plans include the use of a mobile payment > platform > >>>> to alleviate the problem of low credit card usage and cash safety. > >>>> > >>>> We therefore believe that the proper place within the current GNSO > >>>> framework for CCAOI is the CSG. The fact that the CSG's rigid > constituency > >>>> structures may mean that CCAOI could potentially belong to either the > >>>> Internet Service Providers (ISP) constituency or the Business > Constituency > >>>> (BC), or that either of these groups may need to modify its charter to > >>>> allow a commercial organization of CCAOI's nature to apply, is not > NCSG' > >>>> concern or issue. Similarly, if the GNSO's own structure requires > >>>>change in > >>>> order to accommodate a diverse organization such as CCAOI, it is not a > >>>> solution to just put them in the NCSG simply because we are the most > >>>> flexible and open GNSO stakeholder group. These limitations are > problems > >>>> that are neither the fault of CCAOI or NCSG, and should if necessary > be > >>>> addressed by the GNSO as a whole and perhaps also the ICANN Board's > own > >>>> Structural Improvements Committee (SIC), who had worked with the > fledgling > >>>> NCSG to develop a charter that reflected non-commercial values and > >>>> interests. > >>>> > >>>> Should this not be feasible, NCSG believes that those members and > >>>> elements of CCAOI that are purely non-commercial could individually > join > >>>> NCSG. As a representative organization that has clearly commercial > sources > >>>> of funding and for-profit members, however, CCAOI as it is currently > >>>> constituted clearly does not belong within NCSG. > >>>> > >>>> Respectfully submitted, > >>>> > >>>> The Non-Commercial Stakeholder Group" > >>>> > >>>> > >>>> > >>>> Mary W S Wong > >>>> Professor of Law > >>>> Director, Franklin Pierce Center for IP > >>>> Chair, Graduate IP Programs > >>>> UNIVERSITY OF NEW HAMPSHIRE SCHOOL OF LAW > >>>> Two White Street > >>>> Concord, NH 03301 > >>>> USA > >>>> Email: [log in to unmask] > >>>> Phone: 1-603-513-5143 > >>>> Webpage: http://www.law.unh.edu/marywong/index.php > >>>> Selected writings available on the Social Science Research Network > (SSRN) > >>>> at: http://ssrn.com/author=437584 > >>>> > >>>> > >>>> > >>> > >>> -- > >>> Alain Berranger, B.Eng, MBA > >>> Member, Board of Directors, CECI, > >>>http://www.ceci.ca< > http://www.ceci.ca/en/about-ceci/team/board-of-directors/> > >>> Executive-in-residence, Schulich School of Business, > www.schulich.yorku.ca > >>> Treasurer, Global Knowledge Partnership Foundation, > www.gkpfoundation.org > >>> NA representative, Chasquinet Foundation, www.chasquinet.org > >>> Chair, NPOC, NCSG, ICANN, http://npoc.org/ > >>> O:+1 514 484 7824; M:+1 514 704 7824 > >>> Skype: alain.berranger > >>> > >>> > >>> AVIS DE CONFIDENTIALITÉ > >>> Ce courriel est confidentiel et est à l'usage exclusif du destinataire > >>> ci-dessus. Toute personne qui lit le présent message sans en être le > >>> destinataire, ou l'employé(e) ou la personne responsable de le > remettre au > >>> destinataire, est par les présentes avisée qu'il lui est strictement > >>> interdit de le diffuser, de le distribuer, de le modifier ou de le > >>> reproduire, en tout ou en partie . Si le destinataire ne peut être > joint ou > >>> si ce document vous a été communiqué par erreur, veuillez nous en > informer > >>> sur le champ et détruire ce courriel et toute copie de celui-ci. > Merci de > >>> votre coopération. > >>> > >>> CONFIDENTIALITY MESSAGE > >>> This e-mail message is confidential and is intended for the exclusive > use > >>> of the addressee. 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