telling them to shut up could be read as an effort to sweep an elephant
under mat. in any case, it leaves them even more vulnerable to personalised
harassments, such as,
http://abcnews.go.com/International/wireStory/greenwalds-partner-legal-bid-uk-detention-20800079


On Wed, Nov 6, 2013 at 3:08 PM, Jorge Amodio <[log in to unmask]> wrote:

> Who can be judge of scale, based on the capabilities and intentions of
> each government ? And how some events have affected the psychosis,
> particularly of extreme right or left trigger happy. There is no difference
> in principle and all this BS is political noise to score points against
> each other.
>
> What is out of scale is the amount hypocrisy and ridicule talking going
> on. Similar situation when some countries at WCIT or other international
> forums raise the Human Rights flag.
>
> For Snowden, Greenwald and crew, you made your point, you have shown
> evidence, now stop spewing stolen information.
>
> -Jorge
>
> > On Nov 6, 2013, at 5:56 AM, "Carlos A. Afonso" <[log in to unmask]> wrote:
> >
> > Obviously every state keeps an intelligence service. The major
> difference between the duo USA+UK and the rest is the scale, persistence
> and pervasiveness of surveillance -- something orders of magnitude beyond
> what any other country does.
> >
> > This is what is motivating the scaling up of international reactions.
> >
> > --c.a.
> >
> >> On 11/06/2013 09:41 AM, Adam Peake wrote:
> >> And this
> >>
> >> "GCHQ and European spy agencies worked together on mass surveillance"
> >>
> >> <
> http://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/2013/nov/01/gchq-europe-spy-agencies-mass-surveillance-snowden
> >
> >>
> >> Brazil's surveillance -- isn't this the kind of spying we'd expect, as
> featured in almost every spy novel?  Also looks like the US might be
> leaking back, making itself look not quite so bad.
> >>
> >> Discussion at the IGF I think made pretty clear that it wasn't the act
> of surveillance that was a shock, spies spy, but the scale, the absolutely
> massive (massive) scale, that everyone was a target (or potentially so),
> that US administration had been clear they didn't care about rights of
> non-US citizens: this might not have come through as clearly in the
> sessions as it might, but that human rights were violated was emphasized
> over and over.
> >>
> >> Couple of sessions at the IGF discussed: the final morning "Main
> Session: Emerging Issues – Internet Surveillance" <
> http://www.intgovforum.org/cms/igf-2013-transcripts/1439-taking-stock-emerging-issues--internet-surveillance>.
> And somewhat on the morning of the first day "Building Bridges – The Role
> of Governments in Multistakeholder Cooperation" <
> http://www.intgovforum.org/cms/igf-2013-transcripts/1447-building-bridges-the-role-of-governments-in-multistakeholder-cooperation>
> (links are to full transcript)
> >>
> >> And there's a chairs summary on the IGF website that attempts to
> summarize things (clumsy stuff, and I was one of the pair who wrote it, a
> new version will be added later today).
> >>
> >> Adam
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >>> On Nov 6, 2013, at 2:03 AM, Jorge Amodio wrote:
> >>>
> >>>
> >>> I guess the summit in Rio will include a discussion about this no ?
> >>>
> >>>
> http://www.theverge.com/2013/11/5/5068024/brazil-admits-to-spying-on-us-russia-iran-diplomatic-targets-after-nsa-criticism
> >>>
> >>> -J
> >>
>