How do you expect a government to act if they get word that somebody is carrying state highly classified secrets without any precautions and btw, those secrets were stolen ? -J On Wed, Nov 6, 2013 at 6:19 AM, Alex Gakuru <[log in to unmask]> wrote: > telling them to shut up could be read as an effort to sweep an elephant > under mat. in any case, it leaves them even more vulnerable to personalised > harassments, such as, > http://abcnews.go.com/International/wireStory/greenwalds-partner-legal-bid-uk-detention-20800079 > > > On Wed, Nov 6, 2013 at 3:08 PM, Jorge Amodio <[log in to unmask]> wrote: > >> Who can be judge of scale, based on the capabilities and intentions of >> each government ? And how some events have affected the psychosis, >> particularly of extreme right or left trigger happy. There is no difference >> in principle and all this BS is political noise to score points against >> each other. >> >> What is out of scale is the amount hypocrisy and ridicule talking going >> on. Similar situation when some countries at WCIT or other international >> forums raise the Human Rights flag. >> >> For Snowden, Greenwald and crew, you made your point, you have shown >> evidence, now stop spewing stolen information. >> >> -Jorge >> >> > On Nov 6, 2013, at 5:56 AM, "Carlos A. Afonso" <[log in to unmask]> wrote: >> > >> > Obviously every state keeps an intelligence service. The major >> difference between the duo USA+UK and the rest is the scale, persistence >> and pervasiveness of surveillance -- something orders of magnitude beyond >> what any other country does. >> > >> > This is what is motivating the scaling up of international reactions. >> > >> > --c.a. >> > >> >> On 11/06/2013 09:41 AM, Adam Peake wrote: >> >> And this >> >> >> >> "GCHQ and European spy agencies worked together on mass surveillance" >> >> >> >> < >> http://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/2013/nov/01/gchq-europe-spy-agencies-mass-surveillance-snowden >> > >> >> >> >> Brazil's surveillance -- isn't this the kind of spying we'd expect, as >> featured in almost every spy novel? Also looks like the US might be >> leaking back, making itself look not quite so bad. >> >> >> >> Discussion at the IGF I think made pretty clear that it wasn't the act >> of surveillance that was a shock, spies spy, but the scale, the absolutely >> massive (massive) scale, that everyone was a target (or potentially so), >> that US administration had been clear they didn't care about rights of >> non-US citizens: this might not have come through as clearly in the >> sessions as it might, but that human rights were violated was emphasized >> over and over. >> >> >> >> Couple of sessions at the IGF discussed: the final morning "Main >> Session: Emerging Issues – Internet Surveillance" < >> http://www.intgovforum.org/cms/igf-2013-transcripts/1439-taking-stock-emerging-issues--internet-surveillance>. >> And somewhat on the morning of the first day "Building Bridges – The Role >> of Governments in Multistakeholder Cooperation" < >> http://www.intgovforum.org/cms/igf-2013-transcripts/1447-building-bridges-the-role-of-governments-in-multistakeholder-cooperation> >> (links are to full transcript) >> >> >> >> And there's a chairs summary on the IGF website that attempts to >> summarize things (clumsy stuff, and I was one of the pair who wrote it, a >> new version will be added later today). >> >> >> >> Adam >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >>> On Nov 6, 2013, at 2:03 AM, Jorge Amodio wrote: >> >>> >> >>> >> >>> I guess the summit in Rio will include a discussion about this no ? >> >>> >> >>> >> http://www.theverge.com/2013/11/5/5068024/brazil-admits-to-spying-on-us-russia-iran-diplomatic-targets-after-nsa-criticism >> >>> >> >>> -J >> >> >> > >