On Nov 6, 2013, at 10:39 PM, Avri Doria wrote: > > > So the problem with the UIS+UK is their competence? > > What is scaling up international reactions is hypocrisy. > And perhaps a bit of jealousy at not being as competent. > oops, scope should have also said scope. That they target everyone. scope and scale Adam > avri > > > On 6 Nov 2013, at 03:56, Carlos A. Afonso wrote: > >> Obviously every state keeps an intelligence service. The major difference between the duo USA+UK and the rest is the scale, persistence and pervasiveness of surveillance -- something orders of magnitude beyond what any other country does. >> >> This is what is motivating the scaling up of international reactions. >> >> --c.a. >> >> On 11/06/2013 09:41 AM, Adam Peake wrote: >>> And this >>> >>> "GCHQ and European spy agencies worked together on mass surveillance" >>> >>> <http://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/2013/nov/01/gchq-europe-spy-agencies-mass-surveillance-snowden> >>> >>> Brazil's surveillance -- isn't this the kind of spying we'd expect, as featured in almost every spy novel? Also looks like the US might be leaking back, making itself look not quite so bad. >>> >>> Discussion at the IGF I think made pretty clear that it wasn't the act of surveillance that was a shock, spies spy, but the scale, the absolutely massive (massive) scale, that everyone was a target (or potentially so), that US administration had been clear they didn't care about rights of non-US citizens: this might not have come through as clearly in the sessions as it might, but that human rights were violated was emphasized over and over. >>> >>> Couple of sessions at the IGF discussed: the final morning "Main Session: Emerging Issues – Internet Surveillance" <http://www.intgovforum.org/cms/igf-2013-transcripts/1439-taking-stock-emerging-issues--internet-surveillance>. And somewhat on the morning of the first day "Building Bridges – The Role of Governments in Multistakeholder Cooperation" <http://www.intgovforum.org/cms/igf-2013-transcripts/1447-building-bridges-the-role-of-governments-in-multistakeholder-cooperation> (links are to full transcript) >>> >>> And there's a chairs summary on the IGF website that attempts to summarize things (clumsy stuff, and I was one of the pair who wrote it, a new version will be added later today). >>> >>> Adam >>> >>> >>> >>> On Nov 6, 2013, at 2:03 AM, Jorge Amodio wrote: >>> >>>> >>>> I guess the summit in Rio will include a discussion about this no ? >>>> >>>> http://www.theverge.com/2013/11/5/5068024/brazil-admits-to-spying-on-us-russia-iran-diplomatic-targets-after-nsa-criticism >>>> >>>> -J >>>> >>>> >>> >> >