I was using 'routing' metaphorically. On 15-Aug-15 11:38, Seun Ojedeji wrote: > On Sat, Aug 15, 2015 at 10:08 AM, Avri Doria <[log in to unmask] > <mailto:[log in to unmask]>> wrote: > > Hi, > > I have never thought so-called fragments are more that another > temporary > breakage in the Interent that the network will heal and learn to > 'route' > around. > > > I think its more than temporary for some region. Those who live in > some countries like China and other countries that filter quite a > number of internet contents will tell you that getting access to > filtered destinations its not as easy as re-routing. > > > > That has been the threat from government lately, they will > fragment the network. They can try, but they will only hurt > themselves > and some of their citizens. > > > Sure and we should be concerned about those citizens, because they > initially form part of the Netizen and we are then disconnected from > them (perhaps this point may make more sense within the AtLarge > community but i think non-commercial should be appropriate as well) > > > The Internet will survive and will 'route' around any breakage > they commit in time. > > > Sure it will but some will be off the grid. > > > I think all these government threats of fragmentation are just > disruption that will spur further innovation and a stronger Internet. > > > I agree this and those kind of innovations are the ones you find being > used to commit crimes on the Internet in future. Innovating towards > positive development of the Internet would have been more helpful. > Nevertheless, there is the saying that the Internet is for the "good, > bad and the ugly" and one mans food is another man's poison. > > Cheers! > > > avri > > > On 15-Aug-15 11:02, Seun Ojedeji wrote: > > On Sat, Aug 15, 2015 at 9:43 AM, Avri Doria <[log in to unmask] > <mailto:[log in to unmask]> > > <mailto:[log in to unmask] <mailto:[log in to unmask]>>> wrote: > > > > Governments cannot control the Internet, they can only ruin it. > > Then again, that should not be much of a surprise. > > > > > > +1 hence the source of the term "Internet deferagmentation". Not > > allowing govt participate in the coordination processes of the > > internet would only justify their need to further "defragment" the > > Internet. > > > > Regards > > > > > > avri > > > > > > On 15-Aug-15 09:46, Subrenat, Jean-Jacques wrote: > > > Hello Sam & All, > > > > > > taking a broad historical view, > > > - to begin with, the Internet was the realm of engineers, > > academics, military personnel; > > > - most sovereign states, because their civil servants came > from > > law, macro-economics or political "science", did not grasp the > > potential of the Internet, and therefore left it to their > > technical ministerial departments (telecoms, industry...); > > > - businesses were quick to espouse the Internet, taking in > their > > wake the necessary lawyers for trademarks and litigations, and > > this may have become the single most influential segment of the > > Internet eco-system; > > > - more recently, and for a variety of reasons (strengthen > > censorship, extend surveillance, streamle administrative tasks, > > reach the electorate more easily, most states are simply > catching > > up. This is where we are today. > > > > > > Against this background, it seems likely that most sovereign > > states will seek a greater role. That is evident in the GAC, but > > also more widely. One of the main areas of competition for > them is > > representation of the public interest, where they generally > do not > > take a favourable view of NGOs or other elements of civil > society, > > because the latter occupy a space which, in political theory, > > belongs first and foremost to sovereign states. > > > > > > Reports on the future of the Internet (Ilves Commission and > > others), the pursuit of a universal forum (IGF), various > > initiatives to enhance the multi-stakeholder model (MSM) (e.g. > > NetMundial Initiative), none of these proposes, nor will bring > > about, a lesser role of governments. > > > > > > The challenge today is > > > - to recognize that sovereign states will not abandon what > they > > see as their self-evident place in Internet governance; > > > - taking that as a given, how can we strengthen the MSM in > a way > > that does not push states towards an alternative to MSM, such as > > national Intranets, i.e. terminating the single, universally > > compatible Internet as most of us know it today? > > > > > > Jean-Jacques. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > ----- Mail original ----- > > > De: "Sam Lanfranco" <[log in to unmask] > <mailto:[log in to unmask]> <mailto:[log in to unmask] > <mailto:[log in to unmask]>>> > > > À: [log in to unmask] > <mailto:[log in to unmask]> > > <mailto:[log in to unmask] > <mailto:[log in to unmask]>> > > > Envoyé: Mercredi 12 Août 2015 15:58:16 > > > Objet: Re: [Policy] IANA transition and ICANN accountability > > proposal : NCSG comments > > > > > > > > > > > > I have a shorter history observing the role of GAC inside > ICANN, > > but a longer history of observing governments, and I am the > > position that the transition should take place keeping GAC > pretty > > much in its existing advisory role where there are, and will be, > > continues pressures for role modification. It would open up > a very > > dangerous and destabilizing struggle if “...the GAC > dissented from > > whatever Dublin adopts”. > > > > > > > > > We need to keep a collaborative element to the struggles for > > position within ICANN. Moving to a pure adversarial stance > in this > > area would be a lose-lose recipe for disaster. > > > > > > Sam L. > > > > > > > > > > > > --- > > This email has been checked for viruses by Avast antivirus > software. > > https://www.avast.com/antivirus > > > > > > > > > > -- > > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ > > > > /Seun Ojedeji, > > Federal University Oye-Ekiti > > web: http://www.fuoye.edu.ng > > Mobile: +2348035233535 <tel:%2B2348035233535> > > //alt > email:<http://goog_1872880453>[log in to unmask] > <mailto:[log in to unmask]> > > <mailto:[log in to unmask] > <mailto:[log in to unmask]>>/ > > > > The key to understanding is humility - my view ! > > > > > > > --- > This email has been checked for viruses by Avast antivirus software. > https://www.avast.com/antivirus > > > > > -- > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ > > /Seun Ojedeji, > Federal University Oye-Ekiti > web: http://www.fuoye.edu.ng > Mobile: +2348035233535 > //alt email:<http://goog_1872880453>[log in to unmask] > <mailto:[log in to unmask]>/ > > The key to understanding is humility - my view ! > > --- This email has been checked for viruses by Avast antivirus software. https://www.avast.com/antivirus