Agree with Ed. (As I usually do ;-) Viktor, the issue you are running into here is that 9 times out of, well, 9, anti-hate speech activism shades into pro-censorship activism, and people here are generally hostile to content controls and censorship. I think we are all in complete solidarity with efforts to prevent violence against minority groups or anyone else, but why not focus on anti-violence, incitement that is directly and demonstrably connected to violence? To categorize a certain class of expression as "hate speech" is inevitably a framing that encourages regulation and censorship of various forms of political speech. --MM > -----Original Message----- > From: NCSG-Discuss [mailto:[log in to unmask]] On Behalf Of > Edward Morris > Sent: Friday, October 2, 2015 9:06 AM > To: [log in to unmask] > Subject: Re: [NCSG-Discuss] ICANN and Human Rights & the World Bank and > Human Rights > > Hi Viktor, > > Great to see you here! > > The traditional position of the NCSG is that ICANN should not get involved in > content. That is a position I am a strong supporter of, be it content we all > agree is wonderful and delight in viewing or content some would label hate > speech. Are you suggesting that ICANN should get involved in regulating hate > speech? That is a concept I find troubling on a number of grounds and is > certainly something I would contend is beyond the corporations scope and > mission. > > Best, > > Ed Morris > > Sent from my iPhone > > > On Oct 2, 2015, at 1:21 PM, Viktor Szabados <[log in to unmask]> > wrote: > > > > Dear Niels, > > > > No Hate is an example in this regards. I sometimes have problems to > > understand your very theoretical approach. I like more practical > > things, we are different. > > > > Colleagues of Article 19 are also in our IRPC coalition and for them > > it does not refer to a night club or anything else. But maybe I have > > different point of view. > > > > thanks,your > > vik > > > >> On 02/10/2015, Niels ten Oever <[log in to unmask]> wrote: > >> -----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- > >> Hash: SHA256 > >> > >> Dear Viktor, > >> > >> I am not really convinced bu the argument that the Internet has (or > >> should have) the same status as a night club. If any part of the > >> Internet would simply drop packets because of the wrong header, we > >> would simply route around it. > >> > >> Am also not sure if this is a sufficient mapping of human rights > >> online, it seems that most things are described in relation to hate > >> speech, whereas the is more to say, non-discrimination then what is > >> described here, no? Take for instance algorithmic decision making. > >> > >> Also missed a discussion on Intermediary Liability in the document, > >> does is align with the Manila Principles? > >> > >> Best, > >> > >> Niels > >> > >> > >> > >> > >> > >> > >>> On 10/02/2015 10:43 AM, Viktor Szabados wrote: > >>> Hello Everybody, > >>> > >>> let me give also some input from my side, as consultant of the No > >>> Hate Speech Movement of the Council of Europe. We have a quite good > >>> summary of all the issues around human rights and Internet, in > >>> particular linked to hate speech. We run besides the campaign > >>> conferences, workshops and this guide is also for different > >>> exercises around this topic. We can offer you inputs and knowledge > >>> based on the expertise and experience of our campaign run since > >>> 2012. > >>> > >>> An other good network of experts is around the Internet Rights and > >>> Principles Coalition where I am also member of the board, see our > >>> Charter also below. The Coalition gained also official observer > >>> status at the Council of Europe’s Steering Committee on Media > >>> Information and Society (CDMSI). > >>> > >>> > >>> NHSM Council of Europe - No Hate Speech Movement > >>> http://www.nohatespeechmovement.org Bookmarks p. 144-145 see > >>> attached, full edition link below > >>> http://nohate.ext.coe.int/Campaign-Tools-and-Materials/Bookmarks > >>> > http://nohate.ext.coe.int/content/download/38987/300906/file/Bookmar > >>> ks > >> _EN_online.pdf > >>> > >>> Human rights and the Internet The Internet is mostly “owned” and > >>> controlled by private companies. This makes the protection of human > >>> rights more complicated, because human rights are really ‘rules for > >>> governments’, not private companies. If a shopping mall or private > >>> nightclub wants to forbid people from wearing jeans, protesting, or > >>> distributing information about another company, all of which are > >>> forms of ‘expression’, you cannot plead freedom of expression and > >>> take them to the European Court of Human Rights! In the same way, > >>> private companies can mostly set the rules that people must abide by > >>> when using parts of the Internet owned by them. If people do not > >>> like the rules, they can complain, but the ultimate sanction is > >>> simply not to use the service. However, this does not mean that > >>> those parts of the world which are owned by private companies, > >>> including the Internet, are not regulated by human rights laws! > >>> Human rights impose (at least) two different types of obligation on > >>> governments: 1. They set limits on what governments are actively > >>> allowed to do, for example, they are not allowed to ban all > >>> political dissent, engage in torture, or deprive someone of their > >>> liberty without proper reason. 2. They oblige governments to take > >>> positive action to ensure that rights are properly protected. This > >>> may mean passing laws which prohibit discrimination, making sure > >>> that violent acts are prosecuted (and punished), or ensuring that > >>> victims receive proper protection. ... > >>> > >>> > >>> IRPC Internet Rights and Principles Coalition - > >>> http://internetrightsandprinciples.org/ the charter of human rights > >>> and principles for the internet > >>> http://internetrightsandprinciples.org/site/wp-content/uploads/2014/ > >>> 08 > >> /IRPC_Booklet-English_4thedition.pdf > >>> > >>> What do we mean by Human Rights & Principles? Human rights are > >>> international human rights as defined by international law. We have > >>> translated these directly to the internet with provisions such as > >>> freedom from blocking and filtering. These can be identified by the > >>> use of language such as “everyone has a right to...” and “everyone > >>> has a freedom to...”. By “Principles” we are talking about those > >>> internet policy principles or implementation principles that > >>> describe features of the system which are required to support human > >>> rights, these can be identified by the use of language such as > >>> “shall” and “must”. ... > >>> > >>> > >>> Happy to give more insight or connection if needed, just drop me a > >>> line. > >>> > >>> thanks,your vik > >>> > >>>> On 01/10/2015, Sam Lanfranco <[log in to unmask]> wrote: > >>>> As we struggle to determine where and how human rights fit into > >>>> what ICANN is and what it does, it might be useful to read the > >>>> recent report to the UN General Assembly by the UN Special > >>>> Rapporteur on extreme poverty and human rights, Philip Alston, > >>>> submitted in accordance with Human Rights Council resolution 26/. > >>>> > >>>> It is short, 23 pages long, and has been used by others to describe > >>>> the World Bank, in negative terms, as a "Human-Rights Free Zone". I > >>>> would hate to see that label applied to ICANN. > >>>> > >>>> http://www.un.org/en/ga/search/view_doc.asp?symbol=A/70/274 > >>>> > >>>> Sam L. > >>>> > >>>> -- > >>> > >>> Re: Human Rights@ICANN 54 Inbox Stephanie > >>> Perrin<[log in to unmask]> 1 October 2015 at 17:32 > >>> To: [log in to unmask] > >>> > >>> Gac public safety committee, on Monday at 330 to 430 I believe > >>> Stephanie > >>> > >>> On 2015-10-01 9:44, Marilia Maciel wrote: Dear NCSGers, > >>> > >>> Here is a compilation of ICANN sessions that are either about human > >>> rights or that relate to Human Rights discussions. May be of > >>> interest to this group. > >>> > >>> Please, take a look and see if you would have any > >>> additions/deletions to make: http://bit.ly/1LSIbvQ > >>> > >>> Best wishes, Marília > >> > >> - -- > >> Niels ten Oever > >> Head of Digital > >> > >> Article 19 > >> www.article19.org > >> > >> PGP fingerprint 8D9F C567 BEE4 A431 56C4 > >> 678B 08B5 A0F2 636D 68E9 -----BEGIN PGP > >> SIGNATURE----- > >> Version: GnuPG v2 > >> > >> > iQEcBAEBCAAGBQJWDlnqAAoJEAi1oPJjbWjpDeAIAJFYDg0dhxYa057tcbqmAiH > Y > >> > kID/qEjJAPsb4TKKjzw3wrr4t9oV5nvI72S6CdzQfEni68dG0t+Mndj4QGBTFO+C > >> > 1GxTFUmswFm0S0eDATvtqkR8dvi5+ep2RYNBnERf/yfcHT4lJWgXzw+0teOMD > 97Z > >> > Mv3UR/izmX59ZD4Z3YcsVOExIJJ8TUmccxQqNA2WDQJ2sF4i5W2ULDYdGlho > M25/ > >> > l8oTr/HNLvM2iJxxU6O/MhRLDhdKzLqt+M5tHqRLDCAU2+KIv2+OvvcbKLb1ajp > s > >> > ra8ft6gSjbCZp/1QYhbUNJf84FwP3D03UiQxOaMVvI2sG1dDbqgZOqQxeYfeUTI > = > >> =G6EX > >> -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- > > > > > > -- > > SZABADOS Viktor > > [log in to unmask] > > +41 79 734 47 83