Yes, agree. On 6/24/2016 9:10 PM, Carlos Raúl Gutiérrez G. wrote: > Wise Words Robin > Thank you > > Carlos Raúl Gutiérrez > +506 8837 7176 > Skype: carlos.raulg > Current UTC offset: -6.00 (Costa Rica) > On 24 Jun 2016, at 21:50, Robin Gross wrote: > >> While this lone effort to save the women may have been >> well-intentioned, I am also concerned that it will end up being >> counter productive. Let’s not become defensive about concerns, but >> rather address them in more of a dialogue among the impacted >> parties. Of course none of us are in favor of harassment, but I also >> don’t think we need to go off on a one man campaign. Let’s try to >> work productively together with guidance from the impacted parties >> leading the effort on what changes are needed and how best to handle >> situations when they arise. >> >> Thanks, >> Robin >> >>> On Jun 24, 2016, at 9:34 AM, Tatiana Tropina >>> <[log in to unmask]> wrote: >>> >>> Hi all, >>> I fully support Milton's email. Demanding strong action has to come >>> together with strong and thorough safeguards. I don't want to be in >>> the atmosphere of fear and intimidation. Vague definitions, unclear >>> rules and off the cuff solutions are as dangerous as the problem >>> itself. >>> Best >>> Tatiana >>> >>> On 24 Jun 2016 18:15, "Edward Morris" <[log in to unmask] >>> <mailto:[log in to unmask]>> wrote: >>> Milton, >>> >>> I'm not going to get involved in juvenile name calling and personal >>> attacks. All quotes in may post are accurate and taken from the >>> Council list. As for your accusation of "grandstanding" and chest >>> beating... >>> >>> I've spent hours on the telephone with officials and organisations >>> in Finland. I have learned law, procedure and established personal >>> contacts that will enable me to help those who feel harmed and >>> aggrieved. If you want to call that grandstanding go ahead. I call >>> it getting off my rear end and solving a problem I see and have >>> experienced. >>> >>> We are not going to have as strong an NCSG team in Helsinki that we >>> would otherwise have had because there are women who will no longer >>> come to these meetings. That bothers me. I'm told the tech community >>> is always sexist, as if that is an excuse. Well, you've been here >>> for years Milton and talking to women who have been here a long time >>> as well they tell me there have always been problems of this nature. >>> I have no way of knowing whether they are telling me the truth or not. >>> >>> What I do know is what I've experienced: the most paternalistic >>> sexist environment I have encountered anywhere in my professional >>> life. I look forward to working with you and others to create policy >>> to fix this. It should have been done years ago by those who have >>> been there all these years. >>> >>> In the interim, I asm going to ensure that those who feel aggrieved >>> are able to access the resources that our host countries have >>> established to assist them. One of the advantage predators have is >>> the victims at meetings like ICANN are often in a foreign country >>> and don't know where to turn. It's a real problem, one I've >>> witnessed first hand at ICANN meetings in Singapore and Morocco. I'm >>> doing everything I can to take away this predator advantage and >>> ensure that ALL conference attendees have access to the resources >>> set up to help them by the state and civil society in the Republic >>> of Finland. Each attendee is deserved to feel safe in his or her >>> body and to be treated respectfully and professionally. >>> >>> I'm sorry you don't seem to approve of my actions, Milton. Not much >>> I can do about that. I've seen too many tears and heard too many >>> stories. If I can help one person while ICANN is getting it's act >>> together it will be worth the condemnation of the masses. >>> >>> Respectfully, >>> >>> Ed Morris >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> From: "Mueller, Milton L" <[log in to unmask] >>> <mailto:[log in to unmask]>> >>> Sent: Friday, June 24, 2016 3:56 PM >>> To: [log in to unmask] >>> <mailto:[log in to unmask]> >>> Subject: Re: Harassment and Helsinki >>> >>> Ed >>> >>> >>> one of your Councilors who stated “it is my view that we need a >>> privacy policy more than a harassment policy “. I could not disagree >>> more strongly with that statement. >>> >>> >>> MM: That does not strike me as an accurate statement. My >>> understanding is that there were concerns about how personal >>> information about accusations is handled. According to an approved >>> NCUC statement, we need to be as concerned about the rights of the >>> falsely accused as we are about the victim of SH, because of course >>> we all know, or should know, that the boundaries are not always >>> clear and that people can manipulate or misuse SH charges just as SH >>> abusers can manipulate others in a conference setting. >>> >>> >>> MM: I’d like to hear more about those details, and less about how >>> strongly you are against SH, Ed. Last time I looked there were no >>> defenders or SH on this list. We need to work together on this issue >>> and not grandstand – one of the most poisonous things about these >>> kinds of issues is that it allows people to beat their chests and >>> proclaim how much they are against “bad things” (sexual harassment, >>> terrorism, child porn, you name it) while obscuring the details >>> about what rights people have and what procedures are justified in >>> response. >>> >>> >>> (I am reminded of the Republican primary debates, where the >>> candidates vied with each other to say how much they were against >>> ISIS, and how “strong” should be the measures we take against it, >>> but seem to have overlooked any realistic cause-effect relationship >>> between the actions proposed and the factors that have given rise to >>> ISIS in the region – including the Iraq war they all supported. But >>> I digress…) >>> >>> -- Matthew Shears | Director, Global Internet Policy & Human Rights Project Center for Democracy & Technology | cdt.org E: [log in to unmask] | T: +44.771.247.2987