Yes, agree.
On 6/24/2016 9:10 PM, Carlos Raúl Gutiérrez G. wrote:
> Wise Words Robin
> Thank you
>
> Carlos Raúl Gutiérrez
> +506 8837 7176
> Skype: carlos.raulg
> Current UTC offset: -6.00 (Costa Rica)
> On 24 Jun 2016, at 21:50, Robin Gross wrote:
>
>> While this lone effort to save the women may have been
>> well-intentioned, I am also concerned that it will end up being
>> counter productive. Let’s not become defensive about concerns, but
>> rather address them in more of a dialogue among the impacted
>> parties. Of course none of us are in favor of harassment, but I also
>> don’t think we need to go off on a one man campaign. Let’s try to
>> work productively together with guidance from the impacted parties
>> leading the effort on what changes are needed and how best to handle
>> situations when they arise.
>>
>> Thanks,
>> Robin
>>
>>> On Jun 24, 2016, at 9:34 AM, Tatiana Tropina
>>> <[log in to unmask]> wrote:
>>>
>>> Hi all,
>>> I fully support Milton's email. Demanding strong action has to come
>>> together with strong and thorough safeguards. I don't want to be in
>>> the atmosphere of fear and intimidation. Vague definitions, unclear
>>> rules and off the cuff solutions are as dangerous as the problem
>>> itself.
>>> Best
>>> Tatiana
>>>
>>> On 24 Jun 2016 18:15, "Edward Morris" <[log in to unmask]
>>> <mailto:[log in to unmask]>> wrote:
>>> Milton,
>>>
>>> I'm not going to get involved in juvenile name calling and personal
>>> attacks. All quotes in may post are accurate and taken from the
>>> Council list. As for your accusation of "grandstanding" and chest
>>> beating...
>>>
>>> I've spent hours on the telephone with officials and organisations
>>> in Finland. I have learned law, procedure and established personal
>>> contacts that will enable me to help those who feel harmed and
>>> aggrieved. If you want to call that grandstanding go ahead. I call
>>> it getting off my rear end and solving a problem I see and have
>>> experienced.
>>>
>>> We are not going to have as strong an NCSG team in Helsinki that we
>>> would otherwise have had because there are women who will no longer
>>> come to these meetings. That bothers me. I'm told the tech community
>>> is always sexist, as if that is an excuse. Well, you've been here
>>> for years Milton and talking to women who have been here a long time
>>> as well they tell me there have always been problems of this nature.
>>> I have no way of knowing whether they are telling me the truth or not.
>>>
>>> What I do know is what I've experienced: the most paternalistic
>>> sexist environment I have encountered anywhere in my professional
>>> life. I look forward to working with you and others to create policy
>>> to fix this. It should have been done years ago by those who have
>>> been there all these years.
>>>
>>> In the interim, I asm going to ensure that those who feel aggrieved
>>> are able to access the resources that our host countries have
>>> established to assist them. One of the advantage predators have is
>>> the victims at meetings like ICANN are often in a foreign country
>>> and don't know where to turn. It's a real problem, one I've
>>> witnessed first hand at ICANN meetings in Singapore and Morocco. I'm
>>> doing everything I can to take away this predator advantage and
>>> ensure that ALL conference attendees have access to the resources
>>> set up to help them by the state and civil society in the Republic
>>> of Finland. Each attendee is deserved to feel safe in his or her
>>> body and to be treated respectfully and professionally.
>>>
>>> I'm sorry you don't seem to approve of my actions, Milton. Not much
>>> I can do about that. I've seen too many tears and heard too many
>>> stories. If I can help one person while ICANN is getting it's act
>>> together it will be worth the condemnation of the masses.
>>>
>>> Respectfully,
>>>
>>> Ed Morris
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> From: "Mueller, Milton L" <[log in to unmask]
>>> <mailto:[log in to unmask]>>
>>> Sent: Friday, June 24, 2016 3:56 PM
>>> To: [log in to unmask]
>>> <mailto:[log in to unmask]>
>>> Subject: Re: Harassment and Helsinki
>>>
>>> Ed
>>>
>>>
>>> one of your Councilors who stated “it is my view that we need a
>>> privacy policy more than a harassment policy “. I could not disagree
>>> more strongly with that statement.
>>>
>>>
>>> MM: That does not strike me as an accurate statement. My
>>> understanding is that there were concerns about how personal
>>> information about accusations is handled. According to an approved
>>> NCUC statement, we need to be as concerned about the rights of the
>>> falsely accused as we are about the victim of SH, because of course
>>> we all know, or should know, that the boundaries are not always
>>> clear and that people can manipulate or misuse SH charges just as SH
>>> abusers can manipulate others in a conference setting.
>>>
>>>
>>> MM: I’d like to hear more about those details, and less about how
>>> strongly you are against SH, Ed. Last time I looked there were no
>>> defenders or SH on this list. We need to work together on this issue
>>> and not grandstand – one of the most poisonous things about these
>>> kinds of issues is that it allows people to beat their chests and
>>> proclaim how much they are against “bad things” (sexual harassment,
>>> terrorism, child porn, you name it) while obscuring the details
>>> about what rights people have and what procedures are justified in
>>> response.
>>>
>>>
>>> (I am reminded of the Republican primary debates, where the
>>> candidates vied with each other to say how much they were against
>>> ISIS, and how “strong” should be the measures we take against it,
>>> but seem to have overlooked any realistic cause-effect relationship
>>> between the actions proposed and the factors that have given rise to
>>> ISIS in the region – including the Iraq war they all supported. But
>>> I digress…)
>>>
>>>
--
Matthew Shears | Director, Global Internet Policy & Human Rights Project
Center for Democracy & Technology | cdt.org
E: [log in to unmask] | T: +44.771.247.2987
|
