Wise Words Robin
Thank you

Carlos Raúl Gutiérrez
+506 8837 7176
Skype: carlos.raulg
Current UTC offset: -6.00 (Costa Rica)
On 24 Jun 2016, at 21:50, Robin Gross wrote:

> While this lone effort to save the women may have been 
> well-intentioned, I am also concerned that it will end up being 
> counter productive.  Let’s not become defensive about concerns, but 
> rather address them in more of a dialogue among the impacted parties.  
> Of course none of us are in favor of harassment, but I also don’t 
> think we need to go off on a one man campaign.  Let’s try to work 
> productively together with guidance from the impacted parties leading 
> the effort on what changes are needed and how best to handle 
> situations when they arise.
>
> Thanks,
> Robin
>
>> On Jun 24, 2016, at 9:34 AM, Tatiana Tropina 
>> <[log in to unmask]> wrote:
>>
>> Hi all,
>> I fully support Milton's email. Demanding strong action has to come 
>> together with strong and thorough safeguards. I don't want to be in 
>> the atmosphere of fear and intimidation. Vague definitions, unclear 
>> rules and off the cuff solutions are as dangerous as the problem 
>> itself.
>> Best
>> Tatiana
>>
>> On 24 Jun 2016 18:15, "Edward Morris" <[log in to unmask] 
>> <mailto:[log in to unmask]>> wrote:
>> Milton,
>>
>> I'm not going to get involved in juvenile name calling and personal 
>> attacks. All quotes in may post are accurate and taken from the 
>> Council list. As for your accusation of "grandstanding" and chest 
>> beating...
>>
>> I've spent hours on the telephone with officials and organisations in 
>> Finland. I have learned law, procedure and established personal 
>> contacts that will enable me to help those who feel harmed and 
>> aggrieved. If you want to call that grandstanding go ahead. I call it 
>> getting off my rear end and solving a problem I see and have 
>> experienced.
>>
>> We are not going to have as strong an NCSG team in Helsinki that we 
>> would otherwise have had because there are women who will no longer 
>> come to these meetings. That bothers me. I'm told the tech community 
>> is always sexist, as if that is an excuse. Well, you've been here for 
>> years Milton and talking to women who have been here a long time as 
>> well they tell me there have always been problems of this nature. I 
>> have no way of knowing whether they are telling me the truth or not.
>>
>> What I do know is what I've experienced: the most paternalistic 
>> sexist environment I have encountered anywhere in my professional 
>> life. I look forward to working with you and others to create policy 
>> to fix this. It should have been done years ago by those who have 
>> been there all these years.
>>
>> In the interim, I asm going to ensure that those who feel aggrieved 
>> are able to access the resources that our host countries have 
>> established to assist them. One of the advantage predators have is 
>> the victims at meetings like ICANN are often in a foreign country and 
>> don't know where to turn. It's a real problem, one I've witnessed 
>> first hand at ICANN meetings in Singapore and Morocco. I'm doing 
>> everything I can to take away this predator advantage and ensure that 
>> ALL conference attendees have access to the resources set up to help 
>> them by the state and civil society in the Republic of Finland. Each 
>> attendee is deserved to feel safe in his or her body and to be 
>> treated respectfully and professionally.
>>
>> I'm sorry you don't seem to approve of my actions, Milton. Not much I 
>> can do about that. I've seen too many tears and heard too many 
>> stories. If I can help one person while ICANN is getting it's act 
>> together  it will be worth the condemnation of the masses.
>>
>> Respectfully,
>>
>> Ed Morris
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> From: "Mueller, Milton L" <[log in to unmask] 
>> <mailto:[log in to unmask]>>
>> Sent: Friday, June 24, 2016 3:56 PM
>> To: [log in to unmask] 
>> <mailto:[log in to unmask]>
>> Subject: Re: Harassment and Helsinki
>>
>> Ed
>>
>>
>> one of your Councilors who stated “it is my view that we need a 
>> privacy policy more than a harassment policy “. I could not 
>> disagree more strongly with that statement.
>>
>>
>> MM: That does not strike me as an accurate statement. My 
>> understanding is that there were concerns about how personal 
>> information about accusations is handled. According to an approved 
>> NCUC statement, we need to be as concerned about the rights of the 
>> falsely accused as we are about the victim of SH, because of course 
>> we all know, or should know, that the boundaries are not always clear 
>> and that people can manipulate or misuse SH charges just as SH 
>> abusers can manipulate others in a conference setting.
>>
>>
>> MM: I’d like to hear more about those details, and less about how 
>> strongly you are against SH, Ed. Last time I looked there were no 
>> defenders or SH on this list. We need to work together on this issue 
>> and not grandstand – one of the most poisonous things about these 
>> kinds of issues is that it allows people to beat their chests and 
>> proclaim how much they are against “bad things” (sexual 
>> harassment, terrorism, child porn, you name it) while obscuring the 
>> details about what rights people have and what procedures are 
>> justified in response.
>>
>>
>> (I am reminded of the Republican primary debates, where the 
>> candidates vied with each other to say how much they were against 
>> ISIS, and how “strong” should be the measures we take against it, 
>> but seem to have overlooked any realistic cause-effect relationship 
>> between the actions proposed and the factors that have given rise to 
>> ISIS in the region – including the Iraq war they all supported. But 
>> I digress…)
>>
>>