On Nov 6, 2013, at 10:39 PM, Avri Doria wrote:

> 
> 
> So the problem with the UIS+UK is their competence?
> 
> What is scaling up international reactions is hypocrisy.
> And perhaps a bit of jealousy at not being as competent.
> 

oops, scope should have also said scope.  That they target everyone.  scope and scale

Adam



> avri
> 
> 
> On 6 Nov 2013, at 03:56, Carlos A. Afonso wrote:
> 
>> Obviously every state keeps an intelligence service. The major difference between the duo USA+UK and the rest is the scale, persistence and pervasiveness of surveillance -- something orders of magnitude beyond what any other country does.
>> 
>> This is what is motivating the scaling up of international reactions.
>> 
>> --c.a.
>> 
>> On 11/06/2013 09:41 AM, Adam Peake wrote:
>>> And this
>>> 
>>> "GCHQ and European spy agencies worked together on mass surveillance"
>>> 
>>> <http://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/2013/nov/01/gchq-europe-spy-agencies-mass-surveillance-snowden>
>>> 
>>> Brazil's surveillance -- isn't this the kind of spying we'd expect, as featured in almost every spy novel?  Also looks like the US might be leaking back, making itself look not quite so bad.
>>> 
>>> Discussion at the IGF I think made pretty clear that it wasn't the act of surveillance that was a shock, spies spy, but the scale, the absolutely massive (massive) scale, that everyone was a target (or potentially so), that US administration had been clear they didn't care about rights of non-US citizens: this might not have come through as clearly in the sessions as it might, but that human rights were violated was emphasized over and over.
>>> 
>>> Couple of sessions at the IGF discussed: the final morning "Main Session: Emerging Issues – Internet Surveillance" <http://www.intgovforum.org/cms/igf-2013-transcripts/1439-taking-stock-emerging-issues--internet-surveillance>. And somewhat on the morning of the first day "Building Bridges – The Role of Governments in Multistakeholder Cooperation" <http://www.intgovforum.org/cms/igf-2013-transcripts/1447-building-bridges-the-role-of-governments-in-multistakeholder-cooperation> (links are to full transcript)
>>> 
>>> And there's a chairs summary on the IGF website that attempts to summarize things (clumsy stuff, and I was one of the pair who wrote it, a new version will be added later today).
>>> 
>>> Adam
>>> 
>>> 
>>> 
>>> On Nov 6, 2013, at 2:03 AM, Jorge Amodio wrote:
>>> 
>>>> 
>>>> I guess the summit in Rio will include a discussion about this no ?
>>>> 
>>>> http://www.theverge.com/2013/11/5/5068024/brazil-admits-to-spying-on-us-russia-iran-diplomatic-targets-after-nsa-criticism
>>>> 
>>>> -J
>>>> 
>>>> 
>>> 
>> 
>