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NCSG-Discuss <[log in to unmask]>
Date:
Sat, 15 Aug 2015 14:21:16 +0200
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Avri Doria <[log in to unmask]>
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I was using 'routing' metaphorically.



On 15-Aug-15 11:38, Seun Ojedeji wrote:
> On Sat, Aug 15, 2015 at 10:08 AM, Avri Doria <[log in to unmask]
> <mailto:[log in to unmask]>> wrote:
>
>     Hi,
>
>     I have never thought so-called fragments are more that another
>     temporary
>     breakage in the Interent that the network will heal and learn to
>     'route'
>     around. 
>
>
> I think its more than temporary for some region. Those who live in
> some countries like China and other countries that filter quite a
> number of internet contents will tell you that getting access to
> filtered destinations its not as easy as re-routing.
>
>  
>
>     That has been the threat from government lately, they will
>     fragment the network.  They can try, but they will only hurt
>     themselves
>     and some of their citizens. 
>
>
> Sure and we should be concerned about those citizens, because they
> initially form part of the Netizen and we are then disconnected from
> them (perhaps this point may make more sense within the AtLarge
> community but i think non-commercial should be appropriate as well)
>  
>
>     The Internet will survive and will 'route' around any breakage
>     they commit in time.
>
>
> Sure it will but some will be off the grid.
>
>
>     I think all these government threats of fragmentation are just
>     disruption that will spur further innovation and a stronger Internet.
>
>
> I agree this and those kind of innovations are the ones you find being
> used to commit crimes on the Internet in future. Innovating towards
> positive development of the Internet would have been more helpful.
> Nevertheless, there is the saying that the Internet is for the "good,
> bad and the ugly" and one mans food is another man's poison.
>
> Cheers!
>
>
>     avri
>
>
>     On 15-Aug-15 11:02, Seun Ojedeji wrote:
>     > On Sat, Aug 15, 2015 at 9:43 AM, Avri Doria <[log in to unmask]
>     <mailto:[log in to unmask]>
>     > <mailto:[log in to unmask] <mailto:[log in to unmask]>>> wrote:
>     >
>     >     Governments cannot control the Internet, they can only ruin it.
>     >     Then again, that should not be much of a surprise.
>     >
>     >
>     > +1 hence the source of the term "Internet deferagmentation". Not
>     > allowing govt participate in the coordination processes of the
>     > internet would only justify their need to further "defragment" the
>     > Internet.
>     >
>     > Regards
>     >
>     >
>     >     avri
>     >
>     >
>     >     On 15-Aug-15 09:46, Subrenat, Jean-Jacques wrote:
>     >     > Hello Sam & All,
>     >     >
>     >     > taking a broad historical view,
>     >     > - to begin with, the Internet was the realm of engineers,
>     >     academics, military personnel;
>     >     > - most sovereign states, because their civil servants came
>     from
>     >     law, macro-economics or political "science", did not grasp the
>     >     potential of the Internet, and therefore left it to their
>     >     technical ministerial departments (telecoms, industry...);
>     >     > - businesses were quick to espouse the Internet, taking in
>     their
>     >     wake the necessary lawyers for trademarks and litigations, and
>     >     this may have become the single most influential segment of the
>     >     Internet eco-system;
>     >     > - more recently, and for a variety of reasons (strengthen
>     >     censorship, extend surveillance, streamle administrative tasks,
>     >     reach the electorate more easily, most states are simply
>     catching
>     >     up. This is where we are today.
>     >     >
>     >     > Against this background, it seems likely that most sovereign
>     >     states will seek a greater role. That is evident in the GAC, but
>     >     also more widely. One of the main areas of competition for
>     them is
>     >     representation of the public interest, where they generally
>     do not
>     >     take a favourable view of NGOs or other elements of civil
>     society,
>     >     because the latter occupy a space which, in political theory,
>     >     belongs first and foremost to sovereign states.
>     >     >
>     >     > Reports on the future of the Internet (Ilves Commission and
>     >     others), the pursuit of a universal forum (IGF), various
>     >     initiatives to enhance the multi-stakeholder model (MSM) (e.g.
>     >     NetMundial Initiative), none of these proposes, nor will bring
>     >     about, a lesser role of governments.
>     >     >
>     >     > The challenge today is
>     >     > - to recognize that sovereign states will not abandon what
>     they
>     >     see as their self-evident place in Internet governance;
>     >     > - taking that as a given, how can we strengthen the MSM in
>     a way
>     >     that does not push states towards an alternative to MSM, such as
>     >     national Intranets, i.e. terminating the single, universally
>     >     compatible Internet as most of us know it today?
>     >     >
>     >     > Jean-Jacques.
>     >     >
>     >     >
>     >     >
>     >     >
>     >     >
>     >     >
>     >     >
>     >     > ----- Mail original -----
>     >     > De: "Sam Lanfranco" <[log in to unmask]
>     <mailto:[log in to unmask]> <mailto:[log in to unmask]
>     <mailto:[log in to unmask]>>>
>     >     > À: [log in to unmask]
>     <mailto:[log in to unmask]>
>     >     <mailto:[log in to unmask]
>     <mailto:[log in to unmask]>>
>     >     > Envoyé: Mercredi 12 Août 2015 15:58:16
>     >     > Objet: Re: [Policy] IANA transition and ICANN accountability
>     >     proposal : NCSG comments
>     >     >
>     >     >
>     >     >
>     >     > I have a shorter history observing the role of GAC inside
>     ICANN,
>     >     but a longer history of observing governments, and I am the
>     >     position that the transition should take place keeping GAC
>     pretty
>     >     much in its existing advisory role where there are, and will be,
>     >     continues pressures for role modification. It would open up
>     a very
>     >     dangerous and destabilizing struggle if “...the GAC
>     dissented from
>     >     whatever Dublin adopts”.
>     >     >
>     >     >
>     >     > We need to keep a collaborative element to the struggles for
>     >     position within ICANN. Moving to a pure adversarial stance
>     in this
>     >     area would be a lose-lose recipe for disaster.
>     >     >
>     >     > Sam L.
>     >     >
>     >     >
>     >
>     >
>     >     ---
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>     >
>     >
>     >
>     >
>     > --
>     >
>     ------------------------------------------------------------------------
>     >
>     >     /Seun Ojedeji,
>     >     Federal University Oye-Ekiti
>     >     web:      http://www.fuoye.edu.ng
>     >     Mobile: +2348035233535 <tel:%2B2348035233535>
>     >     //alt
>     email:<http://goog_1872880453>[log in to unmask]
>     <mailto:[log in to unmask]>
>     >     <mailto:[log in to unmask]
>     <mailto:[log in to unmask]>>/
>     >
>     >         The key to understanding is humility - my view !
>     >
>     >
>
>
>     ---
>     This email has been checked for viruses by Avast antivirus software.
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>
>
>
>
> -- 
> ------------------------------------------------------------------------
>
>     /Seun Ojedeji,
>     Federal University Oye-Ekiti
>     web:      http://www.fuoye.edu.ng
>     Mobile: +2348035233535
>     //alt email:<http://goog_1872880453>[log in to unmask]
>     <mailto:[log in to unmask]>/
>
>         The key to understanding is humility - my view !
>
>


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