Perhaps a note about how APEC deals with this might be helpful?
Dangerous turf....
cheers stephanie
On 2016-04-13 8:00, Edward Morris wrote:
> Hi Ayden.
> Thank you very much for your hard work on this.
> Is there some place in the document we can either clarify, define, add
> to or modify the word 'state'.?
> Quick example: Taiwan is represented in the GAC. I and 22 countries of
> the world, including Panama, for example, consider Taiwan to be a
> state. Yet, the United Nations does not. If we create further regions
> based upon culture and Asia is divided into multiple groups it is
> conceivable that Taiwan would automatically be lumped i with Chins
> where the criteria used in assignment would not normally generate that
> outcome. There are other examples of this, in the Middle East being
> another.
> Thanks for considering how and where this could fit ion to our comment.
> Kind Regards,
> Ed Mporris
> ------------------------------------------------------------------------
> *From*: "Ayden Férdeline" <[log in to unmask]>
> *Sent*: Tuesday, April 12, 2016 6:18 PM
> *To*: [log in to unmask]
> *Subject*: Re: AW: [NCSG-Discuss] Geographic Regions Review Working
> Group Report - NCSG Response
> Hello all,
> Just a reminder that the deadline to submit our comments on the final
> report of the Geographic Regions Review Working Group is fast
> approaching. If we agree to submit something (and I will confess I am
> not too sure of process here - do we want to submit something? Is this
> something best discussed on Thursday's open policy call?) it would be
> helpful to have your feedback in by next Tuesday. This is because the
> deadline for comments is 24 April.
> I was reading the statement that was submitted by the Registries
> Stakeholder Group
> <https://links7.mixmaxusercontent.com/aMjjKHWxnLSD3SEwj/l/HNd3LAYRAqsA2njoA?rn=&re=gI1RWZuIXez5idyV2c0NXasB0UTV1QTlERtc0UD5kI>
> yesterday. They began with an interesting remark which I would like to
> quote in full - I don't think there is value in us echoing it, but it
> might be something we'd like to note in our response to the Draft
> Framework of Principles for Cross Community Working Groups, if we respond:
> /“The RySG notes that it has been nearly nine years since the concerns
> about the definition and use of Geographic Regions were highlighted by
> the ccNSO in 2007 and almost three years since the WGGR produced its
> final report in June 2013. The reason for these exceptionally long
> timelines is unclear but they might be cause of concern for some RySG
> members.” /
> Just for ease of reference, here is a link to the statement I have
> drafted so far which incorporates the inputs of around 20 NCSG
> members. I am not precious about the words. If you would like to
> change something, please go ahead and re-phrase it:
> https://docs.google.com/document/d/1-c2vVT2DNO73l89wfZTvKtY70rmaid8g7XBO-Vto9SM/edit?usp=sharing
> I look forward to hearing your thoughts.
> Best wishes,
> Ayden Férdeline
> Statement of Interest
> <https://links2.mixmaxusercontent.com/aMjjKHWxnLSD3SEwj/l/lqkayIE4XigvCIbYy?rn=&re=gI1RWZuIXez5idyV2c0NXasB0UTV1QTlERtc0UD5kI>
>
> On Fri, Apr 8, 2016 10:48 PM, Ayden Férdeline [log in to unmask]
> <mailto:[log in to unmask]> wrote:
>
> Hi Glenn, and others,
>
> Thanks for your comments. Regarding the Fellowship, as you know,
> ICANN takes a rather economically deterministic view in assessing
> eligibility. In order to be eligible for a Fellowship, a candidate
> must be a citizen of a country classed by the World Bank as a low,
> lower-middle, or upper-middle economy. I don't happen to see
> anything wrong with means testing this programme. Nor do I see
> anything wrong with deferring to a recognised third-party to make
> the call as to whether someone can afford or not to participate
> (it's hardly within ICANN's remit to be doing this). But still,
> the eligibility criteria is broken.
>
> The biggest issue I see is this: just because a country is
> supposedly high-income does not mean the Fellow comes from such a
> background. It does not mean that a country invests in education,
> nor is looking to build the capacity of its citizenry in Internet
> governance matters. I can only speak from personal experience here
> — living in the UK, higher education is very much another
> commodity to be exported, not something that the State sees a
> responsibility to invest in. The other flaw is in the data set.
> We're relying on data self-reported by States to the World Bank.
> Some countries do not report accurate data and it is unclear what
> repercussions (if any) there are for doing so. The figures that
> Argentina, for instance, reports are questionable in accuracy.
> This is a country that goes to the trouble of rigging the
> Economist's Big Mac Index
> <https://links2.mixmaxusercontent.com/aMjjKHWxnLSD3SEwj/l/R7HrwMGbPdKsgJC5z?rn=iUmbpxWZkJXqDbEIuVGZ5FkI&re=i02bj5SZulGblRmclZGQu5WYjlmI>
> (by imposing price controls on Big Macs); I would put forward that
> the figures they are reporting to the World Bank are intended for
> domestic consumption and not grounded in reality. The very real
> impact here, however, is that Argentines are not eligible for
> ICANN Fellowships, because Argentina has self-reported itself to
> the World Bank as a high-income economy.
> My preference would be for the Fellowship programme to be extended
> to those of all nationalities. Of course there should be some way
> to recognise and account for privilege, but particularly for early
> career participants and those without institutional backing, it
> doesn't matter which country you come from — funding to
> participate in ICANN activities is going to be an issue.
> To your other comments, Glenn, I am glad that Ed has taken
> ownership of this matter and will seek a response from the
> relevant parties.
> Best wishes,
> Ayden
>
> On Thu, Apr 7, 2016 6:39 PM, Glenn McKnight
> [log in to unmask] <mailto:[log in to unmask]> wrote:
>
> We have been bringing up 'forever' the issue of First Nations
> from North America and elsewhere which are denied access to
> the fellowship. Also the 15 islands under NARALO for the
> South Pacific. These members are deemed part of the rich west
> and not eligible. Meanwhile American Samoa or the Hopi
> Reservations make less many of the countries ie. Barbados and
> others who are deemed worthy to be fellows. I am speaking
> with Loris Taylor of Native Public Media and she is working
> with the Tribal elders in the US to join GAC since US tribes
> which are treaty countries are eligible. No one from ICANN
> has responded to them.
>
> Glenn
> Glenn McKnight
> [log in to unmask] <mailto:[log in to unmask]>
> skype gmcknight
> twitter gmcknight
> .
> On Thu, Apr 7, 2016 at 1:06 PM, Kathy Kleiman
> <[log in to unmask] <mailto:[log in to unmask]>> wrote:
>
> Hi Tracy, Ayden and All,
> I came from the South School of Internet Governance last
> week (organized by Olga Cavalli) and learned that a lot of
> time is being spent arguing about and within regions. And
> there is much work and so many other issues to argue about!
>
> To Ayden's questions below, which did not make it to me
> earlier, let me respond: I think that it is people who
> should organize their regions within ICANN. Israel, for
> example, might object to being in the Middle Eastern
> region; as their citizens are so often denied entrance to
> conferences in nearby countries, they normally go to
> Europe and other areas for their meetings. Why should
> their young people have no chance at getting a NextGen
> scholarship if it is only regional and they can't attend
> anything in their regions? That's just one example.
>
> The ones Tracy points to below is another example - and
> solution.
>
> I dislike "recreating the wheel" and my guess is that
> others have solved this issue many times and in many ways
> over the years. What has worked?
> Ayden, as a traveler of the world, I certainly vote for
> you to help solve this interesting problem!
> Best,
> Kathy
>
> On 4/6/2016 2:56 PM, Tracy F. Hackshaw @ Google wrote:
>>
>> For these reasons and more, the GAC deliberately avoids
>> recognition of "regions" in the ICANN space.
>>
>> In terms of the Americas - geography certainly does not
>> rule even re: the RIRs and the Caribbean is probably the
>> best/worst example:
>>
>> Consider this (via the NRO)
>>
>> *_The ARIN Caribbean_*
>>
>> US VIRGIN ISLANDS
>> BRITISH VIRGIN ISLANDS
>> ANGUILLA
>> ANTIGUA AND BARBUDA
>> BAHAMAS
>> BARBADOS
>> BERMUDA
>> CAYMAN ISLANDS
>> DOMINICA
>> GRENADA
>> GUADELOUPE
>> JAMAICA
>> MARTINIQUE
>> PUERTO RICO
>> SAINT KITTS AND NEVIS
>> SAINT LUCIA
>> SAINT VINCENT AND THE GRENADINES
>> TURKS AND CAICOS ISLANDS
>>
>> _*The LACNIC Caribbean*_
>>
>> ARUBA
>> CUBA
>> DOMINICAN REPUBLIC
>> FRENCH GUIANA
>> GUYANA
>> HAITI
>> NETHERLANDS ANTILLES
>> SURINAME
>> TRINIDAD AND TOBAGO
>>
>> *_The RIPE NCC Caribbean_*
>>
>> MONTSERRAT
>>
>> SAINT MARTIN?
>>
>> *_Unclear_*
>>
>> Caribbean Netherlands - Bonaire, Sint Eustatius, and Saba
>> - LACNIC ?
>>
>> Curacao - LACNIC?
>>
>> Sint Maarten - LACNIC?
>>
>> Saint Martin - RIPE NCC?
>>
>> *_Other idiosyncrasies (defying geography):_*
>>
>> Malawi - ARIN
>> Antarctica - ARIN
>>
>> (I could be missing one or two island territories/States)
>>
>> Hi Kathy,
>>
>> Thanks for your comments. I just wanted to pick up on
>> something; you mentioned that (similar, presumably) legal
>> structures should be one of our guiding instruments in
>> the new geographic regions framework. What were you
>> thinking of here? That in the GAC, ICANN should be
>> measuring how many members have common and civil law
>> along with, say, Sharia law provisions, in relation to
>> the total number of countries in the world with those
>> legal systems? How valuable would that be?
>> I am not a lawyer so my understanding of this topic is
>> very limited: I thought every country's legal system had
>> its own identity - though some have been inherited from
>> or influenced by colonialism, or another factor - so I'm
>> not certain as to what we would be trying to achieve
>> here. What type of diversity would you like to see in
>> terms of legal structures?
>> Many thanks,
>>
>> Ayden
>> On Thu, Mar 31, 2016 4:07 PM, Kathy Kleiman
>> [log in to unmask] <mailto:[log in to unmask]>
>> wrote:
>>
>> All, I am not sure that the technical regions need to
>> be our guiding point here. As Wolfgang points out,
>> the technical regions are a little skewed. I would
>> like language, culture, legal structure, civil
>> society structures, and business structures should be
>> our guide here. Quick note that Mexico was “deemed”
>> part of the Latin American region at the founding of
>> ICANN for these reasons. Tx for the work and
>> discussion! Best, Kathy On 3/31/2016 7:25 AM,
>> “Kleinwächter, Wolfgang” wrote: > All this can be
>> understood only in the historical context: Look at
>> the service region for today´s RIPE
>> NCC(https://www.ripe.net/participate/member-support/info/list-of-members/europe)
>> which - as the “European” RIR - inlcudes Middle East
>> and Central Asien countries. When AFRINIC was formed
>> in the early 2000s they took mainly sub-saharian
>> countries which were served previously by ARIN and
>> RIPE and left some middle east countries with RIPE.
>> Difficult to explain . But the good news is: It
>> works.... > > wolfgang > > -----Ursprüngliche
>> Nachricht----- > Von: NCSG-Discuss im Auftrag von
>> Shane Kerr > Gesendet: Do 31.03.2016 13:06 > An:
>> [log in to unmask]
>> <mailto:[log in to unmask]> > Betreff: Re:
>> [NCSG-Discuss] Geographic Regions Review Working
>> Group Report - NCSG Response > > Seun, > > While ARIN
>> predates ICANN, when ICANN was formed ARIN was still
>> the RIR > for North America, South America, and
>> sub-Saharan Africa. Certainly in > the case of
>> Jamaica, since the official language is English it
>> made a > certain amount of sense for them to have
>> stayed with ARIN as an RIR. > > The Caribbean islands
>> all have unique backgrounds, and I suspect trying >
>> to group them to get any kind of regional consensus
>> is always going to > be problematic. :) > > Cheers, >
>> > -- > Shane > > At 2016-03-29 21:55:41 +0100 > Seun
>> Ojedeji wrote: > >> That particularly amazed me
>> Tracy. There is an ARIN meeting that will be >>
>> holding in Jamaica sometime in April. It was quite
>> interesting for me to >> learn that based on ICANN
>> categorisation, .jm fall under the LAC zone even >>
>> though it's within the ARIN region (RIR wise). Don't
>> know how much this >> impacts on the work of the NCSG
>> but I believe it does for the At-Large >> community.
>> >> >> Considering that ARIN predates ICANN, one would
>> expect there is already >> existing data set to work
>> with. Nevertheless, I guess there may have been >>
>> some other reason that informed their decision which
>> ofcourse is currently >> be out of my reach/grasps >>
>> >> Regards >> >> Sent from my LG G4 >> Kindly excuse
>> brevity and typos >> On 29 Mar 2016 9:08 p.m., “Tracy
>> F. Hackshaw” >> wrote: >> >>> See ARIN - LACNIC split
>> in the Caribbean region. >>> >>> Sent from my Fire
>> >>> >>> >>> On March 29, 2016, at 3:26 PM, Ayden
>> Férdeline >>> wrote: >>> >>> >>> Hi Karel, >>> >>>
>> While that concern was raised, my understanding is
>> that it was not carried >>> forward into the
>> recommendations. The Working Group did not recommend
>> >>> moving most of the Caribbean region from the
>> ICANN silo of Latin America to >>> North America
>> because it feared the two regions would be split on
>> >>> geographical and linguistic lines (I would
>> suggest they already are.), >>> among other reasons
>> of “practicality”. It does, however, have provisions
>> in >>> place to allow a country's government to
>> voluntarily request to move to >>> another region.
>> The procedures around how this would happen have not
>> yet >>> been developed by Staff. >>> >>> I welcome
>> any comments or suggestions you might have for our
>> statement, >>> and I look forward to reading your
>> additions. >>> >>> Best wishes, >>> >>> Ayden >>> >>>
>> >>> On Tue, Mar 29, 2016 at 7:59 PM, Karel Douglas
>> >>> wrote: >>> >>>> Good work - I read the NCUC
>> report which caused me to immediately >>>> read the
>> final report of the WG. >>>> >>>> I'm glad that the
>> issue of the Caribbean region was discussed as it is
>> a >>>> very topical issue. >>>> >>>> Carlton Samuels
>> was on the WG and would have highlighted the concerns
>> >>>> that we have. >>>> >>>> I will certainly try to
>> add a few comments on your document. >>>> >>>>
>> regards >>>> >>>> Karel >>>> >>>> On Tue, Mar 29,
>> 2016 at 1:26 PM, Ayden Férdeline >>>> wrote: >>>>
>> >>>>> Hello, team- >>>>> >>>>> I have drafted a
>> response to the final report of the Geographic
>> Regions >>>>> Review Working Group. Comments are due
>> in about 25 days time but if we do >>>>> decide to
>> reply, I hope we can submit something in advance of
>> that >>>>> deadline. I've shared my first draft on
>> Google Docs here >>>>> >>>>> and have also attached
>> it to this email for those without access to that
>> >>>>> website. >>>>> >>>>> >>>>>
>> https://docs.google.com/document/d/1-c2vVT2DNO73l89wfZTvKtY70rmaid8g7XBO-Vto9SM/edit
>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> You can read the Working Group's
>> final report here: >>>>>
>> https://www.icann.org/public-comments/geo-regions-2015-12-23-en
>> >>>>> >>>>> I suspect that we will have a wide birth
>> of opinions on this topic, so >>>>> please know that
>> I'm very much open to reviewing or rethinking
>> anything >>>>> that appears in this early draft. I am
>> also new to writing public comments >>>>> like this
>> one so welcome any feedback you would be kind enough
>> to share. I >>>>> look forward to hearing your
>> thoughts. >>>>> >>>>> Best wishes, >>>>> >>>>> Ayden
>> Férdeline >>>>> >>>>> [image: File] >>>>> >>>>> Ayden
>> Ferdeline - Response - WGGR Report.pdf 36KB >>>>>
>> Download >>>>> >>>>> [image: >>>>> Logo] >>>>> >>>>>
>> >>>> >>> Ayden Férdeline >>> Statement of Interest
>> >>> >>> >>> >>> Ayden Férdeline >>> Statement of
>> Interest >>> >>>
>>
>> Ayden Férdeline
>> Statement of Interest
>> <https://links6.mixmaxusercontent.com/aMjjKHWxnLSD3SEwj/l/NFYlE7DXtQCyuTshl?rn=&re=gI1RWZuIXez5idyV2c0NXasB0UTV1QTlERtc0UD5kI>
>>
> Ayden Férdeline
> Statement of Interest
> <https://links10.mixmaxusercontent.com/aMjjKHWxnLSD3SEwj/l/RTRLQY6cekZHrPc4d?rn=iUmbpxWZkJXqDbEIuVGZ5FkI&re=i02bj5SZulGblRmclZGQu5WYjlmI>
>
> Ayden Férdeline
> Statement of Interest
> <https://links7.mixmaxusercontent.com/aMjjKHWxnLSD3SEwj/l/iCqYkhyENkmiusddu?rn=&re=gI1RWZuIXez5idyV2c0NXasB0UTV1QTlERtc0UD5kI>
|
